Calling all MRA's...

[Audley Strange]

I'm not saying that the media culture exerts total mind control. But for those of us that consume it, it surely has some influence. You don't look at anything or follow any story without strengthening some neural paths. And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

Nor I. However if those who are attempting to influence the greater culture are advocating censorship regulation of plot and form and demanding that all criticism of their personal judgments are objective persecution then I do have a problem.

[Robert_S]

I'm not saying that the media culture exerts total mind control. But for those of us that consume it, it surely has some influence. You don't look at anything or follow any story without strengthening some neural paths. And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

Nor I. However if those who are attempting to influence the greater culture are advocating censorship regulation of plot and form and demanding that all criticism of their personal judgments are objective persecution then I do have a problem.

Bio Rio is one of four Swedish cinemas that launched the new rating last month to draw attention to how few movies pass the Bechdel test. Most filmgoers have reacted positively to the initiative. "For some people it has been an eye-opener," said Tejle.

From that, we get the bile like I have received in this thread. It's not feminists who are making the most convincing case that opposition to feminism is, in practical terms, hate speech.

I don't buy into the idea that anti-feminism is necessarily hate speech, but most of the noise coming from the manosphere doesn't help me make that case to a sceptical audience.

[Jason]

Oh for fuck sake, don't you know anything about evolutionary biology, ancient cultures and folk lore, what the fuck do you want a blank slate. If you ever get the chance to reboot the expansion of time and space then go for it otherwise keep pissing in the wind.

Fuck off.

And try drinking less. You aren't saying anything, just flinging words around and being a dick.

You and A+ have this in common: You're so focused on opposing that you've lost sight of anything coherent to stand FOR.

What do you stand for Robert? I'd like to read the 'manifesto'. ;-)

[Robert_S]

Oh for fuck sake, don't you know anything about evolutionary biology, ancient cultures and folk lore, what the fuck do you want a blank slate. If you ever get the chance to reboot the expansion of time and space then go for it otherwise keep pissing in the wind.

Fuck off.

And try drinking less. You aren't saying anything, just flinging words around and being a dick.

You and A+ have this in common: You're so focused on opposing that you've lost sight of anything coherent to stand FOR.

What do you stand for Robert? I'd like to read the 'manifesto'. ;-)

I got no grand manifesto. I'm not really on a crusade. I don't have to practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of man I'm preaching to. I never came to a forum trying to raise a ruckus about what some other people at some other part of the web were doing.

[charlou]

I do see where you are coming from and I like your posts here more then anybodies else here. Though in the last three years I have seen the nicest most decent men destroyed by the family courts and one great mentor of mine accuse of peadophilia on the most hearsy of hearsy grounds. I really I'm losing it with the gynoccracy as there is no level they will sink to, to destroy good men. I have to stand by while two good friends of mine committed suicide and another is in jail on well no evidence what so ever. Another 11 of the are now druggies or alcoholics, how long should I hold my peace? How long should I not care for my friends? How long should I avoid not being calling a misogynist just because I'm not prepared to stand by any longer? I have let them down for so long now that I'm ashamed by my previous behaviour (I brought into the feminist bullshit) well no longer. fuck them if I hear a feminist I will tell her to fuck off the fucking twat. If I meet a white knight mangina I will laugh at the castrated gobshite and mock the friendzoned piece of shit. Enough is enough and fuck feminism and all who sail on her.

The problem is Dave that if one is going to complain about the pernicious effects of radicalised and victim feminism then one has to be very cautious and not end up spitting bile like an adherent of Valerie Solanas.

As you may be aware (or not) I've been critical of certain feminist bullshit on this forum, but to me my issue goes back a lot further than that canine anal fistula disguised as a man P.Z. Myer's pathetic attacks on this place. The problem as I see it is not that women in general are somehow characters from the bible, where they are all malevolent harpies but rather that for the longest time any debate or criticism of their gender politics was loudly pronounced an attack against all women. "Sexist!" was the "Fascist!" of the late eighties and since many well educated white middle class people suffer from "right on" guilt, they automatically took the position that if they had been accused of it, they must be. As I began to notice that this was a tactic to silence critics and explain that such was not a rebuttal, I also noticed brighter minds than I saying the same thing.

Frankly I admire their tactics as revolting as they are. Undermining the person is enough. If you claim the person is a rape apologist, then why would you explain anything to them? The second tactic is to make all sorts of contradictory stupid and downright embarrassing claims about psychological, social and sexual relationships that seem to be pulled out from an arse and then when called on it claim "Feminism is not about that it's only about equal rights."

Feminism is not about equal rights. It may have been. It's not now. What it seems to me it is about now is a way of making any claim legitimate by saying any criticism of that claim is an attack on all womankind. As long as people are scared about being accused of being misogynists or rape apologisers then this will continue. We have allowed the debate to go one way for so long, but what has been clear over the last couple of years is that less people are willing to be silenced by their accusations.

However, accusing someone of being a white-knighting mangina pussy, is just the same as accusing someone of being a Rape Enabling woman hating piece of shit. That rhetoric now exposes a person as being unsound unwilling to be flexible and thoroughly convinced of their own righteousness.

I see no difference between MGOTW's ranting like that and Lesbian Separatist Rad Fems babbling on about Patriarchal rape cultures. It's just overwrought melodrama. It's a presposterous scorched-earth policy to a nominal problem. If you want nothing to do with the opposite sex, why the fuck do they keep going on about them? Why is their whole worldview based on the hated of them.

Tar-babies.

Feminism has become the you can't say or do anything right if it doesn't conform to what I think/want/need in any given moment form of manipulative relationship, writ large.

[pErvinalia]

I just did a little tour of the MGTOW forum. I'm at a loss for words, so go see for yourself. Really, go take a look.

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forum.php

{redacted}...

*Just realised this is in the open web.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I do see where you are coming from and I like your posts here more then anybodies else here. Though in the last three years I have seen the nicest most decent men destroyed by the family courts and one great mentor of mine accuse of peadophilia on the most hearsy of hearsy grounds. I really I'm losing it with the gynoccracy as there is no level they will sink to, to destroy good men. I have to stand by while two good friends of mine committed suicide and another is in jail on well no evidence what so ever. Another 11 of the are now druggies or alcoholics, how long should I hold my peace? How long should I not care for my friends? How long should I avoid not being calling a misogynist just because I'm not prepared to stand by any longer? I have let them down for so long now that I'm ashamed by my previous behaviour (I brought into the feminist bullshit) well no longer. fuck them if I hear a feminist I will tell her to fuck off the fucking twat. If I meet a white knight mangina I will laugh at the castrated gobshite and mock the friendzoned piece of shit. Enough is enough and fuck feminism and all who sail on her.

The problem is Dave that if one is going to complain about the pernicious effects of radicalised and victim feminism then one has to be very cautious and not end up spitting bile like an adherent of Valerie Solanas.

As you may be aware (or not) I've been critical of certain feminist bullshit on this forum, but to me my issue goes back a lot further than that canine anal fistula disguised as a man P.Z. Myer's pathetic attacks on this place. The problem as I see it is not that women in general are somehow characters from the bible, where they are all malevolent harpies but rather that for the longest time any debate or criticism of their gender politics was loudly pronounced an attack against all women. "Sexist!" was the "Fascist!" of the late eighties and since many well educated white middle class people suffer from "right on" guilt, they automatically took the position that if they had been accused of it, they must be. As I began to notice that this was a tactic to silence critics and explain that such was not a rebuttal, I also noticed brighter minds than I saying the same thing.

Frankly I admire their tactics as revolting as they are. Undermining the person is enough. If you claim the person is a rape apologist, then why would you explain anything to them? The second tactic is to make all sorts of contradictory stupid and downright embarrassing claims about psychological, social and sexual relationships that seem to be pulled out from an arse and then when called on it claim "Feminism is not about that it's only about equal rights."

Feminism is not about equal rights. It may have been. It's not now. What it seems to me it is about now is a way of making any claim legitimate by saying any criticism of that claim is an attack on all womankind. As long as people are scared about being accused of being misogynists or rape apologisers then this will continue. We have allowed the debate to go one way for so long, but what has been clear over the last couple of years is that less people are willing to be silenced by their accusations.

However, accusing someone of being a white-knighting mangina pussy, is just the same as accusing someone of being a Rape Enabling woman hating piece of shit. That rhetoric now exposes a person as being unsound unwilling to be flexible and thoroughly convinced of their own righteousness.

I see no difference between MGOTW's ranting like that and Lesbian Separatist Rad Fems babbling on about Patriarchal rape cultures. It's just overwrought melodrama. It's a presposterous scorched-earth policy to a nominal problem. If you want nothing to do with the opposite sex, why the fuck do they keep going on about them? Why is their whole worldview based on the hated of them.

Tar-babies.

Feminism has become the you can't say or do anything right if it doesn't conform to what I think/want/need in any given moment form of manipulative relationship, writ large.

Wrong. There are people that WANT it to be that. But, as long as there are others that insist that it is still what it started off being - a call for equality NOT dominance - their view will never be the only view.

[charlou]

A call for equality doesn't need a divisive/divisional label. Humanism is the way forward.

[pErvinalia]

The label is appropriate as it highlights the exact nature of the problem. Singing kumbaya isn't going to fix the inequality issues. People in positions of power (dare I say "privilege"?) usually don't give up that power without a fight.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

A call for equality doesn't need a divisive/divisional label. Humanism is the way forward.

Labels are the problem. They confuse more than they illuminate.

Why is humanism the belief that all humans are equal when sexism is most definitely NOT the belief that all sexes are equal? Surely, based on the definition of humanism, feminism should mean that all women are equal!

Words are fucked up and fluid. They mean what we want them to mean. Why let feminism mean what some wanker that shouts louder than anyone else wants it to mean?

I am proud of being a feminist and the more people that shout that I am not a feminist because I don't follow their narrow definition of what that means, the prouder I get!

[JimC]

This thread reminds me, I need to get in touch with my feminine side...

Perhaps a set of pearls with the cardigan?

[Azathoth]

I just did a little tour of the MGTOW forum. I'm at a loss for words, so go see for yourself. Really, go take a look.

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forum.php

Yup, just as fucked up and damaged as the apelusters. The difference is that people take the apelusters seriously

[JimC]

I just did a little tour of the MGTOW forum. I'm at a loss for words, so go see for yourself. Really, go take a look.

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forum.php

Yup, just as fucked up and damaged as the apelusters. The difference is that people take the apelusters seriously

I clicked on it...

If an alien biologist were to examine humanity via MGTOW and A+, they would put us in the "species extinction guaranteed" category, and quickly move on to the cephalopods of Orion 3...

[Audley Strange]

I'm not saying that the media culture exerts total mind control. But for those of us that consume it, it surely has some influence. You don't look at anything or follow any story without strengthening some neural paths. And just as I don't advocate censorship, I have no problem with people making judgements about, and trying to influence the greater culture.

Nor I. However if those who are attempting to influence the greater culture are advocating censorship regulation of plot and form and demanding that all criticism of their personal judgments are objective persecution then I do have a problem.

Bio Rio is one of four Swedish cinemas that launched the new rating last month to draw attention to how few movies pass the Bechdel test. Most filmgoers have reacted positively to the initiative. "For some people it has been an eye-opener," said Tejle.

From that, we get the bile like I have received in this thread. It's not feminists who are making the most convincing case that opposition to feminism is, in practical terms, hate speech.

I don't buy into the idea that anti-feminism is necessarily hate speech, but most of the noise coming from the manosphere doesn't help me make that case to a sceptical audience.

The noise coming from humanity right across the webosphere is mostly noxious.

[Audley Strange]

A call for equality doesn't need a divisive/divisional label. Humanism is the way forward.

Labels are the problem. They confuse more than they illuminate.

Prisons of orthodoxy, yep. Soon as you label yourself something you are expected to perform as such. Label another your reducing a person to a caricature concocted by YOUR thought processes.

Why is humanism the belief that all humans are equal when sexism is most definitely NOT the belief that all sexes are equal? Surely, based on the definition of humanism, feminism should mean that all women are equal!

Words are fucked up and fluid. They mean what we want them to mean. Why let feminism mean what some wanker that shouts louder than anyone else wants it to mean?

Because most of those wankers shouting the loudest are setting the current definition. Still if it doesn't matter why is Charlou's definition "wrong"?

Frankly you may well be right though, however if you are Feminism is going through a catastrophic P.R. disaster and not many staunch level headed "feminists" seem to be doing anything about it other than occasionally claiming they've dropped the label themselves. It seems to me like Stalinists run Communism is what lets people think Communism is Stalinist, so with Feminism, they are giving their opponents (if they really have any other than their self fulfilling shadow of the MRA) plenty of ammunition.