Is this racist?

[Tyrannical]

Tyrannical

You are correct to say all the world is racist. That is the reason we need to try hard to work against it. It is like saying every nations has murders. True. And that is why we need to do what we can to prevent those murders. In the same way, we need to work against racism.

I don't think racism can be fixed, it's an intrinsic part of human behavior. Attempts to solve racism by forced integration make the problem even worse.
The best way to end racism is to remove the cause, which is unwelcome minorities. So for example anti-Black racism can be easily cured by sending Blacks back to Africa.
The US did prove that the melting pot worked when constrained to Europeans of a similar culture. The melting pot doesn't work and just causes increased racism when we started to let "others" into the country.

[Hermit]

Seems to me like the 'mob' here are the people who insist that having any notions that they identify as racist (and heaven forbid ADMITTING TO IT) makes one a prime target for ridicule. Amazing how fighting group thought with group thought just gives rise to another form of stupid mob.

Interesting. You're the first person to mention the word 'ridicule' in this thread. I don't think atheists who argue with or ridicule theism are members of another form of stupid mob because they do that.

[Robert_S]

Tyrannical

You are correct to say all the world is racist. That is the reason we need to try hard to work against it. It is like saying every nations has murders. True. And that is why we need to do what we can to prevent those murders. In the same way, we need to work against racism.

I don't think racism can be fixed, it's an intrinsic part of human behavior. Attempts to solve racism by forced integration make the problem even worse.
The best way to end racism is to remove the cause, which is unwelcome minorities. So for example anti-Black racism can be easily cured by sending Blacks back to Africa.
The US did prove that the melting pot worked when constrained to Europeans of a similar culture. The melting pot doesn't work and just causes increased racism when we started to let "others" into the country.

Racism doesn't need "fixed". At most it needs temporary corrective measures while everyone who still cares that much about race dies off.

[Hermit]

Tyrannical

You are correct to say all the world is racist. That is the reason we need to try hard to work against it. It is like saying every nations has murders. True. And that is why we need to do what we can to prevent those murders. In the same way, we need to work against racism.

I don't think racism can be fixed, it's an intrinsic part of human behavior. Attempts to solve racism by forced integration make the problem even worse.
The best way to end racism is to remove the cause, which is unwelcome minorities. So for example anti-Black racism can be easily cured by sending Blacks back to Africa.
The US did prove that the melting pot worked when constrained to Europeans of a similar culture. The melting pot doesn't work and just causes increased racism when we started to let "others" into the country.

Racism doesn't need "fixed". At most it needs temporary corrective measures while everyone who still cares that much about race dies off.

You seem to have an extremely liberal view of what 'temporary' means.

[Robert_S]

Tyrannical

You are correct to say all the world is racist. That is the reason we need to try hard to work against it. It is like saying every nations has murders. True. And that is why we need to do what we can to prevent those murders. In the same way, we need to work against racism.

I don't think racism can be fixed, it's an intrinsic part of human behavior. Attempts to solve racism by forced integration make the problem even worse.
The best way to end racism is to remove the cause, which is unwelcome minorities. So for example anti-Black racism can be easily cured by sending Blacks back to Africa.
The US did prove that the melting pot worked when constrained to Europeans of a similar culture. The melting pot doesn't work and just causes increased racism when we started to let "others" into the country.

Racism doesn't need "fixed". At most it needs temporary corrective measures while everyone who still cares that much about race dies off.

You seem to have an extremely liberal view of what 'temporary' means.

I have seen a lot of progress in my lifetime. For most of the time I've been alive, the idea of a black POTUS was a joke.

[Hermit]

I have seen a lot of progress in my lifetime.

So have I. Segregation in the US and SA has been swept away in my time. In Australia the Aborigines gained citizenship and their children were no longer systematically taken away from them. All over the western world it has become politically acceptable to enact laws that prohibit discrimination on racist grounds. Just the same, racism at grass roots level is ingrained in the same societies. It'll take two or three generations to disappear if all goes well. I say if all goes well because chances are that our current era of affluence will end fairly abruptly. If that happens we'll find ourselves in the dark ages again with all the superstitions and prejudices borne of ignorance that that entails.

[Drewish]

Seems to me like the 'mob' here are the people who insist that having any notions that they identify as racist (and heaven forbid ADMITTING TO IT) makes one a prime target for ridicule. Amazing how fighting group thought with group thought just gives rise to another form of stupid mob.

Interesting. You're the first person to mention the word 'ridicule' in this thread. I don't think atheists who argue with or ridicule theism are members of another form of stupid mob because they do that.

Ridicule on its own isn't an issue. After all what I describe doing in the OP is ridiculing people who champion a BS narrative of racial identity. It's the "Hear hear!" aspect of ridicule that is problematic. If somebody is insulting somebody and I agree with them that the person deserves it, I don't pile on because the argument should stand on it's own and how much popularity it has shouldn't matter (unless of course I am directly asked for my opinion). I'm not actually suggesting that this is being done to me here (MOST people have been fairly respectful even if they disagree with me) but I think Tyrannical's statement deserves more than logical fallacy hunting. I hate the "logical fallacies" because the soft ones are misapplied all the time, and the hard ones don't need special terms. If an argument is bad, you can point it out by saying, "That's a bad argument because..." Otherwise you just sound condescending and when misapplied (which is often since so many of them are BS) the logical fallacies amount to skeptical group think.

That said, if you want to combat racism, then you need to ridicule racial identity itself (the source of racism), which is something I do and advocate for int he OP. However it seems like a lot of people find this itself racist. I would conclude that if there is such a high social cost to open racism or openly opposing racial identity that the result will simply be (and is) that all racially based attitudes simply become things to only talk about behind closed doors. The Morgan Freeman approach is bullshit and amounts to plugging one's ears and hoping the problem goes away, it just sounds really nice because it's so non-confrontational allows one to condescend against anyone who even brings up the subject. Sorry, I live in the real world where a desire is meaningless on it's own.

[Hermit]

I understand your previous post better now. Thanks for clarifying.

Edit: Also, I agree with you that you cannot get rid of racism by refusing to mention race. Nevertheless, things like 'black history month' inadvertently do reinforce the concept of race, and slogans like 'black is beautiful' even more so.

[Lion IRC]

I think this is racist. Comments?

Me - Aborigines kept an unbroken civilization going sustainably for 40k + years without any help from the secular modern western world
Person who got me banned wrote - A civilisation?

Some scientist wrote :
"Traces of ochre found on the skeleton are thought to be among the oldest example ever discovered of ochre used in a ceremonial context. The find suggests that Australian Aboriginal civilization is one of the oldest in the world."

[Warren Dew]

"Hear hear!" aspect of ridicule that is problematic.

Agreed. As an argument, though, that's the only aspect that ridicule has.

[Warren Dew]

I don't think racism can be fixed, it's an intrinsic part of human behavior. Attempts to solve racism by forced integration make the problem even worse.
The best way to end racism is to remove the cause, which is unwelcome minorities. So for example anti-Black racism can be easily cured by sending Blacks back to Africa.
The US did prove that the melting pot worked when constrained to Europeans of a similar culture. The melting pot doesn't work and just causes increased racism when we started to let "others" into the country.

The melting pot didn't work for the century after the civil war because the melting was banned through laws against miscegenation. Now that those laws are gone, we're on track to merge into a single racial mix in the U.S. within the next century or so.

[laklak]

If you're proud of your skin color, what does that say about your accomplishments?

Well, it was quite an accomplishment for Tan Mom.

[Blind groper]

To Lion

About aborigines and civilisation.

The word 'civilisation' literally means "city dweller." So technically Australian aborigines did not have a civilisation since they did not live in cities, or towns, or even villages. I think it would be more accurate to say they maintained a culture for 40,000 to 50,000 years.

[Hermit]

I think this is racist. Comments?

Me - Aborigines kept an unbroken civilization going sustainably for 40k + years without any help from the secular modern western world
Person who got me banned wrote - A civilisation?

Some scientist wrote :
"Traces of ochre found on the skeleton are thought to be among the oldest example ever discovered of ochre used in a ceremonial context. The find suggests that Australian Aboriginal civilization is one of the oldest in the world."

LOL. You were not banned. You got a one week suspension because your post was considered to be an instance of personal abuse. That attracted a formal warning. It's the third current one, hence the suspension. Virphen did not get you suspended. You did. Had you said something like "That is a racist comment" rather than simply "Racist!", you would have removed an ambiguity and I'd say no warning would have been issued. Please take you whinge to a more suitable thread.

[Lion IRC]

civilization : etymology
1704, "law which makes a criminal process civil," from civilize + -ation. Sense of "civilized condition" first recorded 1772, probably from Fr. civilisation, to be an opposite to barbarity and a distinct word from civility.

Civilisation : noun
1 an advanced stage or system of human social development.
2 a civilized nation or region.

Uncivilised : adjective
1 not socially or culturally advanced.
2 impolite; bad-mannered.