The ethics of hunting

[Ian]

And I must add that every pig I've ever known personally is much smarter than most Atheists I've met personally...and far more personable too.

And yet you spend several hours of each day for several years now... here.

I think you're addicted to hate and antagonism. You're a troll by nature, which makes you a pathetic failure as a human being. Scumbag.

[Seth]

More proof that what Seth keeps ranting on about is true: If only the lion was carrying a gun...

The lion was carrying teeth and claws and was an experienced predator fully capable of killing the hunter and all his companions.

Never take teeth to a gunfight.

Unless you're really good with them, in which case the gun may not be decisive. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. Guns are no guarantee of survival, just a tool to enhance the chances of doing so.

[Seth]

And I must add that every pig I've ever known personally is much smarter than most Atheists I've met personally...and far more personable too.

And yet you spend several hours of each day for several years now... here.

I like pigs, they're smart and sociable...mostly. I tolerate Atheists because they amuse me.

I think you're addicted to hate and antagonism. You're a troll by nature, which makes you a pathetic failure as a human being. Scumbag.

And how do you explain your contribution here?

Oh, by the way, have a nice vacation.

[Hermit]

Guns are no guarantee of survival, just a tool to enhance the chances of doing so.

Which is where the saying "Never take a knife to a gunfight" or "only an asshole brings a knife to a gunfight" comes from. I heard you say that often enough.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1063382
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... ht#p960393
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1086365
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1351421
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1369264
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1385200
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1470630

[Seth]

Guns are no guarantee of survival, just a tool to enhance the chances of doing so.

Which is where the saying "Never take a knife to a gunfight" or "only an asshole brings a knife to a gunfight" comes from. I heard you say that often enough.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1063382
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... ht#p960393
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1086365
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1351421
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1369264
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1385200
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... t#p1470630

My, you are obsessed aren't you? It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight. It's better to bring a gun, or several of them, to any gunfight...preferably including a rifle, but that doesn't mean one is not exhibiting tactical acumen by being armed with both a knife and a gun. Firearms (infrequently) fail and one may run out of ammunition, which makes a knife a good backup weapons. Also, it may be better tactics to employ a knife in CQB than a gun for any of a number of reasons, including stealth. Knives don't make a sound and used properly can take out an opponent without alerting his cohorts to your presence.

And it remains true that neither guns nor knives nor any other weapon is a guarantee of success in an attack. They are all just enhancements that, if used properly and in a timely fashion, substantially increase one's chances of survival and non-injury. But, sometimes you die anyway. That's just how it is.

[Hermit]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

[Seth]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

Life is not fair. There is no such thing as a "fair fight." If one is compelled by circumstances to fight, one is well advised to do so with the greatest degree of force and ferocity one can muster in order to prevail over one's opponent as quickly as possible and with as little harm to onesself as possible. Therefore, Krav Maga, knives, guns and other implements of deadly force.

My right as an apex predator is to tilt the balance as far in my favor as possible. I make no apologies whatsoever for doing so, nor need I do so. If the lion thinks it's unfair, then perhaps he should have evolved opposable thumbs and invented the bow and arrow.

The warning to others is; "Don't force me to fight, because I will not "fight fair" and will use any and all available force or weaponry to overcome my attacker up to and including deadly physical force if necessary, so attack me at your mortal peril."

[Hermit]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

Life is not fair. There is no such thing as a "fair fight."

Yes. And?

If one is compelled by circumstances to fight, one is well advised to do so with the greatest degree of force and ferocity one can muster in order to prevail over one's opponent as quickly as possible and with as little harm to onesself as possible.

The dentist was not compelled by circumstances to fight. One might say, what with him normally living in the USA and travelling to Africa in order to kill himself a lion, he went well out of his way to get into one. It cost him a lot of money in travel costs and hunting fees to actually create those circumstances.

[Seth]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

Life is not fair. There is no such thing as a "fair fight."

Yes. And?

And nothing. I was merely dispelling any suggestion that killing a lion requires a "fair fight."

If one is compelled by circumstances to fight, one is well advised to do so with the greatest degree of force and ferocity one can muster in order to prevail over one's opponent as quickly as possible and with as little harm to onesself as possible.

The dentist was not compelled by circumstances to fight. One might say, what with him normally living in the USA and travelling to Africa in order to kill himself a lion, he went well out of his way to get into one. It cost him a lot of money in travel costs and hunting fees to actually create those circumstances.

He was hunting. It was the lion that should have attacked mercilessly if it wanted to survive. It didn't. Therefore its evolutionary utility had expired and it's death was both inevitable and meaningless.

[Hermit]

If one is compelled by circumstances to fight, one is well advised to do so with the greatest degree of force and ferocity one can muster in order to prevail over one's opponent as quickly as possible and with as little harm to onesself as possible.

The dentist was not compelled by circumstances to fight. One might say, what with him normally living in the USA and travelling to Africa in order to kill himself a lion, he went well out of his way to get into one. It cost him a lot of money in travel costs and hunting fees to actually create those circumstances.

He was hunting. It was the lion that should have attacked mercilessly if it wanted to survive. It didn't. Therefore its evolutionary utility had expired and it's death was both inevitable and meaningless.

Way to evade admitting that you've been caught out spouting more rubbish.

[Brian Peacock]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

This is why we need to arm lions - to create a morally level playing field.

The invention of firearms fundamentally changed the nature of the relationship between humans and animals.

[Seth]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

This is why we need to arm lions - to create a morally level playing field.

If you're under the mistaken impression that lions are not armed I suggest you go to Zimbabwe and go hug one. You will quickly be disabused of that notion.

The invention of firearms fundamentally changed the nature of the relationship between humans and animals.

That's evolution for ya. Adapt or die.

[Brian Peacock]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

This is why we need to arm lions - to create a morally level playing field.

If you're under the mistaken impression that lions are not armed I suggest you go to Zimbabwe and go hug one. You will quickly be disabused of that notion.

The invention of firearms fundamentally changed the nature of the relationship between humans and animals.

That's evolution for ya. Adapt or die.

Hunting ain't hugging. Technological development ain't a biological process.

[Seth]

It's true that it's bad tactics to bring a knife alone to a gunfight.

That's what the lion did. The outcome was not inevitable, that's true, but the odds were well and truly against him, don't you think? Not a fair fight, was it?

This is why we need to arm lions - to create a morally level playing field.

If you're under the mistaken impression that lions are not armed I suggest you go to Zimbabwe and go hug one. You will quickly be disabused of that notion.

The invention of firearms fundamentally changed the nature of the relationship between humans and animals.

That's evolution for ya. Adapt or die.

Hunting ain't hugging. Technological development ain't a biological process.

Indeed, and you're wrong. Technological development is most certainly the result of a biological process, which is why biologically superior human beings develop technology to adjust for their biological shortcomings, which is why we're the apex predators on the planet.

[Brian Peacock]

You are confusing the acquisition of knowledge and understanding with a biological process which transforms the compliment of heritable genetic traits in a population over time. If you wish to suggest that hunting for the pleasure of hunting has an impact on the genome of the human population please provide some appropriate evidence. Remember, that the context of this discussion is the virtues, or otherwise, of hunting as sport today, rather than hunting out of necessity, either today or in the past.