Apelust comes to Rationalia?

[Jason]

'Systemic' means [it] is inherent to [the] system [under discussion]. In this case, 'society'.

Pay attention to the context.

Now ask what [inherent] means.

[JimC]

The point wasn't the anecdote. The point was the thing about fear and comfort zone. Additionally the systemic nature of what's going on. Nothing you've said addresses any of that.

What the fuck does "systemic" mean anyway, in this context?

Some people are racist or sexist. Some aren't.

I take "systemic" to mean that it's inherent in our society. Perhaps that's not the correct use of the word, I don't know (I could look it up, but couldn't be arsed).

I think "systemic" also implies that the problem is fostered or supported by the existing power structures within a society...

[pErvinalia]

'Systemic' means [it] is inherent to [the] system [under discussion]. In this case, 'society'.

Pay attention to the context.

Now ask what [inherent] means.

Fuuuuccckkk. I don't care. Replace "inherent" with "pervasive". Then tell someone who gives a fuck.

[pErvinalia]

Well I looked up "systemic" and you can all go do the same thing. Then tell someone who cares that you were wrong.

[pErvinalia]

The point wasn't the anecdote. The point was the thing about fear and comfort zone. Additionally the systemic nature of what's going on. Nothing you've said addresses any of that.

What the fuck does "systemic" mean anyway, in this context?

Some people are racist or sexist. Some aren't.

I take "systemic" to mean that it's inherent in our society. Perhaps that's not the correct use of the word, I don't know (I could look it up, but couldn't be arsed).

I think "systemic" also implies that the problem is fostered or supported by the existing power structures within a society...

I suppose it could be taken to mean that, and it could be true to an extent, but I can't be sure what the original intent of the word was (it was used in the OP article). When I used it, I intended it to mean pervasive and self-reinforcing. i.e. Systemic.

edit: you are probably saying the same thing there. Sorry, I'm in a negative mood. I have this fucking argument with neoliberals all the time about the word "systemic" and the nature of systems. People of lower intelligence levels, i.e. conservatives, don't seem to understand the words and the concepts and think "systemic" necessarily means willful action by people. It doesn't mean that, and Fuku and Beatsong should probably consider that.

[Jason]

'Systemic' means [it] is inherent to [the] system [under discussion]. In this case, 'society'.

Pay attention to the context.

Now ask what [inherent] means.

Fuuuuccckkk. I don't care. Replace "inherent" with "pervasive". Then tell someone who gives a fuck.

Dude. There must be a bug in my transmitter, cause I was supporting your use of the term and taking a poke at people who like to argue ab dictionary - putting their personal idea of form above function so to speak.

[pErvinalia]

um ok. Doesn't read that way at all. Thanks for the clarification though.

[Beatsong]

'Systemic' means [it] is inherent to [the] system [under discussion]. In this case, 'society'.

Pay attention to the context.

That's what I thought, but that just doesn't make sense. I actually preferred rEv's definition, although I don't think it's what most people really mean by the word.

How could sexism be "inherent" to society? We have laws against all the manifestations of it that we can reasonably control through law, and people have a wide variety of different ways of doing things available to them - some of which in involve sexist choices and some of which don't. It's like saying that wearing blue is inherent to society because that's what a lot of people do.

[Beatsong]

Sorry, I'm in a negative mood. I have this fucking argument with neoliberals all the time about the word "systemic" and the nature of systems. People of lower intelligence levels, i.e. conservatives, don't seem to understand the words and the concepts and think "systemic" necessarily means willful action by people. It doesn't mean that, and Fuku and Beatsong should probably consider that.

Well I'm neither a neoliberal nor a conservative. As for "lower intelligence levels" - fuck you.

I've always understood systemic to mean that something is held in place and reinforced by the non-personal systems of a society - eg law and strongly enforced cultural tradition - rather than just by individual choices and actions. The extreme concentration of landownership among a tiny number of people in the UK for example is systemic. It has its roots in feudalism and long term historical land grabs, and is reinforced by inheritence and legal factors like freehold and leasehold. It's not just that some people choose to buy a lot of land and others don't.

Sexism of course has long term historical roots too, but I'm not convinced how relevant those are any more. People of my age and younger just assume that women will go to university and have professional careers in the same way that men will, for example. There's absolutely nothing in the running of education or entry to professional careers that enshrines and perpetuates sexist principles. If some aged conservative or religious nutjob starts talking about how someone should stay home and learn to be a good mummy instead, then that is just their perception as a sexist individual. You could say that sexism is systemic to most religions, I suppose. But to society as whole, not so much.

My problem with the word is that I think a lot of people use it lazily, to pretend that something they don't like has a kind of "official" support that it really doesn't.

[pErvinalia]

Systemic doesn't mean "official". It never has.