Snipers shoot 12 cops, kill 5, at Black Lives Matter Protest

[pErvinalia]

I can't seem to work out the story of what went on. Yesterday they were reporting that there were 4 shooters "triangulating". They arrested I think 3 people yesterday. Now today they are saying this guy was the sole shooter. I know the media usually gets shit wrong in these events, but that's SPECTACULARLY wrong to invent 3 extra shooters and military tactics when supposedly none of that happened (according to today's report).

By the way, we need Galaxian to look into this. The shootings weren't that far from where JFK was executed by the CIAshot.

[Scot Dutchy]

I think it shows the state of the law enforcement in Dallas. They have not got a clue.

That sounds silly. I haven't read too much about it, but what I did read indicated that as soon as the police knew where the shooter was they ran towards the danger and took care of it. That it took several hours to assess what all had happened seems reasonable to me.

Oh come on a professional force would assess it in minutes not hours.

[Forty Two]

The problem with "fuck dealing with the police" is it gets you shot. I'll do what Seth said, because I don't fancy becoming a "non-optimal outcome" statistic.

What you should do, instead of arguing for less government and less pay, is argue for well regulated, trained, and resourced police forces. Employing adult children and paying them shit and not training them properly only leads to these sorts of problems. Fixing that is going to take more government (i.e. regulations on who can and can't be a cop; and more funding).

What training does the Dallas police force get, and how much do they get paid? Is it shit? How does it compare to the proper police forces you have in mind?

[Forty Two]

I wonder what the rate of cops shooting racists is.

As I said, there is dispute about the statistics of who gets shot more by police; whites or blacks.

For example, a 19 year old white kid was shot by police yesterday, but it didn't make the MSM.

What we do know is that cops shooting blacks gets all the press, which creates a perception that may be only peripherally related to reality.

It's because blacks are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

Men are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

Given the far higher violent crime rate among African Americans, it's not surprising that blacks make up 13% of the population but 23%of the shooting deaths.

[pErvinalia]

The problem with "fuck dealing with the police" is it gets you shot. I'll do what Seth said, because I don't fancy becoming a "non-optimal outcome" statistic.

What you should do, instead of arguing for less government and less pay, is argue for well regulated, trained, and resourced police forces. Employing adult children and paying them shit and not training them properly only leads to these sorts of problems. Fixing that is going to take more government (i.e. regulations on who can and can't be a cop; and more funding).

What training does the Dallas police force get, and how much do they get paid? Is it shit? How does it compare to the proper police forces you have in mind?

In general police pay and training is clearly not good enough given the number of poorly equipped and partnered thugs in the forces. Giving police better training, more resources, and more support can only lead to a reduction in misconduct. Surely not even you could disagree with this? And weeding out the power hungry adolescents would be a good thing too.

[pErvinalia]

I wonder what the rate of cops shooting racists is.

As I said, there is dispute about the statistics of who gets shot more by police; whites or blacks.

For example, a 19 year old white kid was shot by police yesterday, but it didn't make the MSM.

What we do know is that cops shooting blacks gets all the press, which creates a perception that may be only peripherally related to reality.

It's because blacks are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

Men are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

What's your point? That also points to a systemic problem.

Given the far higher violent crime rate among African Americans, it's not surprising that blacks make up 13% of the population but 23%of the shooting deaths.

And that's a systemic problem that needs dealing with. Unless one is a moralising conservative and would rather moralise than deal with reality and outcomes.

[cronus]

If blacks were given a shot at being president this demographic issue would go away?

[pErvinalia]

Yep, racism doesn't exist because there was a black president. Just like the Tories aren't largely sexist wankers just because they had a female party leader.

[laklak]

You can't look at general population percentages, you have to look at who the police interact with. If you never deal with a cop then he can't shoot you, eh?

I know it's "racist" to say it, but according to the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, blacks make up about 28% of arrests for serious crimes, which is about twice their population percentage. From memory that's about the same percentage that get shot, out of all people shot by the cops. Coincidence?

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... s/table-43

Interesting statistics.

[Seth]

I wonder what the rate of cops shooting racists is.

As I said, there is dispute about the statistics of who gets shot more by police; whites or blacks.

For example, a 19 year old white kid was shot by police yesterday, but it didn't make the MSM.

What we do know is that cops shooting blacks gets all the press, which creates a perception that may be only peripherally related to reality.

It's because blacks are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

I assume you mean killed by police, right?

Anyway, I see two possible causes: First, all cops are racists who dream of having even the slightest excuse to kill a black man; or second, blacks commit armed and/or violent offenses that bring them into contact with police at a rate disproportionate to their general representation in the population.

Now I'm quite sure many will view the latter as being a racist statement, but this is not the case. I do not maintain that any particular person is more likely to offend based on his or her race, be they black, white or any other color. What seems both reasonable and logical is the argument that cultural behaviors are likely drivers of individual behavior within identifiable homogeneous cultural groups and that where such cultural values and behaviors conflict with other cultural group behavior, particularly where the minority behaviors conflict with the majority behaviors, tension can arise in what appropriate social behavior is and how it is policed.

We see this in many places having less to do with race than culture, such as in Islam, where an identifiable cultural group has behaviors that are markedly at odds with the cultural behaviors of other groups. This creates conflicts in many cases.

This is not to say that SOME cops are not actual intentional racists, but I seriously doubt this is the universal case because there are an awful lot of black cops out there who seem to put paid to that particular "every cop is a racist" trope.

But it's the racist cops who perpetrate abusive police behavior (it's an identifiable cultural group too, you see) who get the press, and rightfully so. But tarring all cops with the same brush is just as racist as the complaints being made by BLM.

And that's why the police should withdraw from communities that object to their presence and let the inhabitants fend for themselves. By doing so the two conflicting cultural groups can segregate themselves (as blacks these days are voluntarily doing to themselves for reasons of their own) and the black communities can then decide for themselves what sort of cultural and social atmosphere they want and decide how to attain that goal.

Of course, when this happens, and it is happening, the non-radical, non-racist, non-segregationist members of the community who then become the victims of predatory anti-social behavior on the part of other members of their own community complain that the police aren't doing enough to protect them, which is true.

So, who should the police and the rest of us pay attention to and have sympathy for, the tiny vocal minority of black racists and violent criminals who don't like the police or the vast numbers of ordinary black citizens who repudiate them and simply want to live together with everyone else in peace and harmony who deserve to be served and protected just like anyone else?

Count the number of people at the BLM march preceding the sniper attack and compare it to the total population of blacks in Dallas and get back to me on who exactly the police should be listening to and protecting.

Which is not to say that cops who are abusive or kill anyone without strong legal justification for doing so should either be cops or not be in prison for committing a crime. They should.

[Seth]

I think it shows the state of the law enforcement in Dallas. They have not got a clue.

No, it's you who has no clue, having exactly zero experience as a police officer, particularly one in Dallas.

[Seth]

The problem with "fuck dealing with the police" is it gets you shot. I'll do what Seth said, because I don't fancy becoming a "non-optimal outcome" statistic.

What you should do, instead of arguing for less government and less pay, is argue for well regulated, trained, and resourced police forces.

And do you have even one iota of evidence that the DPD isn't exactly that? Keep in mind that in any organization with 3,640 sworn officers is going to have a small percentage of bad apples no matter how hard it tries to weed them out. Some people seek employment as police officers precisely so that they can acquire power and prestige and use it to abuse others. I've worked with such people in the past. The real problem is that police unions strenuously protect these bad apples, to the detriment of everyone, just because. At the Denver Police Department there are a number of well-known abusive and violent cops who have had dozens of excessive force complaints lodged against them and who have even been judged guilty of using excessive force that the Chief of Police fired, only to have the union and the Civil Service Commission overrule him and force him to re-hire and often compensate the officer for firing him in the first place. So if there are abusive cops on the Dallas police force, or anywhere else there's a union involved, you can blame the union for the fact that, like federal government bureaucrats, it can be nearly impossible to get rid of them...just like it's the unions that are responsible for making it nearly impossible to get rid of incompetent and even sexually abusive school teachers.

Employing adult children and paying them shit and not training them properly only leads to these sorts of problems.

And your evidence that any of the 12 officers involved qualify under your specious and insulting, and grossly ignorant opinion is....???

Fixing that is going to take more government (i.e. regulations on who can and can't be a cop; and more funding).

It's not the regulations that are the problem, it's the public's willingness to pay what it takes to get a top-quality police force and the public's willingness to allow police unions to interfere in the decision to discipline or terminate abusive cops. If the public isn't willing to pay that much and give the administration the freedom to get rid of bad apples there's little the police department can do to improve things. So ultimately a community gets exactly as much competent policing as it is willing to pay for...and exactly as much crime as it's willing to tolerate.

[Seth]

I think it shows the state of the law enforcement in Dallas. They have not got a clue.

That sounds silly. I haven't read too much about it, but what I did read indicated that as soon as the police knew where the shooter was they ran towards the danger and took care of it. That it took several hours to assess what all had happened seems reasonable to me.

Oh come on a professional force would assess it in minutes not hours.

They assessed it in seconds and immediately went in pursuit of the shooter. Officers DIED trying to take him out. Did you bother to watch the video of the cop who moved TOWARDS the shooter while engaging him who was brutally shot in the back and then shot again repeatedly by the killer because he happened to turn the wrong way around the pillar that was between him and the shooter, who was 30 or so feet away?

Didn't fucking think so. They were up against a well-armed military-trained shooter who planned the attack quite well and the police did exactly what they were supposed to do when a high-elevation random sniper begins targeting cops. They identified the source of the shots and engaged him with suppressing fire as they moved in on him, ultimately cornering him like a rat and blowing his fucking ass up.

You need to shut your fucking pie hole until you've been in that situation and survived, which I guarantee you would not be the case. My estimation of the tactical abilities of internet fuckwits with no police or military training or experience in such situations has them lying on the ground screaming in fear and pissing their pants while praying fervently to God for someone to save them...even if they are Atheists.

[Seth]

I wonder what the rate of cops shooting racists is.

As I said, there is dispute about the statistics of who gets shot more by police; whites or blacks.

For example, a 19 year old white kid was shot by police yesterday, but it didn't make the MSM.

What we do know is that cops shooting blacks gets all the press, which creates a perception that may be only peripherally related to reality.

It's because blacks are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

Men are killed out of proportion to their general representation in the population.

What's your point? That also points to a systemic problem.

What sort of "systemic problem" does it point to other than a systemic problem with your anus being used as a speaking orifice?

Given the far higher violent crime rate among African Americans, it's not surprising that blacks make up 13% of the population but 23%of the shooting deaths.

And that's a systemic problem that needs dealing with. Unless one is a moralising conservative and would rather moralise than deal with reality and outcomes.

Well, the argument is that the problem is not with the system of policing but with the systemic culture of violence being fostered and perpetrated by the terrorist organization "Black Lives Matter."

[DaveDodo007]

Yep, racism doesn't exist because there was a black president. Just like the Tories aren't largely sexist wankers just because they had a female party leader.

Stop being delusional, conservatism is based on the individual and is colour and sex blind. This is the only non violent way to solve problems that may arise. Lefty/liberal identity politics will only exacerbate these problems.