Atheist's genocide.

[JimC]

Still when god is out of the equation government wise the body bags mount up. Religion at least seems a break on ideology excesses.

Perhaps it is, on occasions. However, often it is an accelerator...

This is true in localize situations though if you want to kill people with industrial scale methods that doesn't include racism (the Nazis) you need atheism

The majority of Nazis were in fact christians...

[pErvinalia]

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

Logic is philosophic masturbation I only deal in facts.

Logic is necessary to even have a debate or to even think in the first place. I'm not in the least surprised you think it is unnecessary.

For a start, correlation doesn't equal causation. Basic fact of logic you don't understand. Secondly, what does "there are no consequences when they chose to do so" mean? The same laws apply to atheists as they do to religionists. Second logic fail.

If you can't grasp basic logic, then you have no place at a rationalist forum.

[pErvinalia]

Still when god is out of the equation government wise the body bags mount up. Religion at least seems a break on ideology excesses.

Perhaps it is, on occasions. However, often it is an accelerator...

This is true in localize situations though if you want to kill people with industrial scale methods that doesn't include racism (the Nazis) you need atheism

The majority of Nazis were in fact christians...

And I'd be willing to bet that the majority of racists in the world are religionists. Atheists have no need for racism. Religionists need it as justification for their fairy tales concerning God(s) benighting them as the chosen people.

[JimC]

Mind you, there have been mass killings by atheists - Stalin and Pol Pot come to mind. But atheism was not the reason behind the killing, it was ideology. And the Nazi death camps did not involve religious reasons for killing, but neither did their ostensible christianity act as a moral brake...

[Hermit]

Atheists will still kill more than the religious because they are gullible stupid morons.

You got that one arse about face. Hitler regarded Christianity as fit only for slaves. That suited him very well. He needed slaves that will do the killing for him. Therefore he very much wanted people to be religious: "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith... we need believing people." Looks like Hitler was very well aware how much more suitable religious people were for the purposes of genocides, wars and sundry killings, than sceptics or atheists.

[DaveDodo007]

Atheists will still kill more than the religious because they are gullible stupid morons.

You got that one arse about face. Hitler regarded Christianity as fit only for slaves. That suited him very well. He needed slaves that will do the killing for him. Therefore he very much wanted people to be religious: "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith... we need believing people." Looks like Hitler was very well aware how much more suitable religious people were for the purposes of genocides, wars and sundry killings, than sceptics or atheists.

Now that religion is waning in the West at least they will just start using ideologies, most atheists seem very susceptible to these.

[JimC]

DaveDodo007 wrote:

...ideologies, most atheists seem very susceptible to these....

I have come across atheists with almost every ideology under the sun, plus many with a very healthy skepticism about having an "ideology" So, I fail to see why anyone could conclude that atheists are more susceptible to ideology than anyone else, or that there is any consistent pattern of ideology in those atheists who have expressed one.

[Hermit]

...ideologies, most atheists seem very susceptible to these....

I fail to see why anyone could conclude that atheists are more susceptible to ideology than anyone else

Indeed. It also flies in the face of the fact that that master manipulator of people, Adolf Hitler, was so desirous of his sheeple being religious. He obviously recognised that religious people are more easily lead by the nose than people with a secular mindset. DaveDodo was obviously having just yet another brainfart.

[mistermack]

It's just a coincidence that the acceptability of atheism has come about at the same time as the increase in scale and efficiency of weapons.
Genocide is much easier to organise, and a lot less personal these days.

The genocides of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were impersonal efficient affairs. The people who give the orders never get any blood on them, they don't ever leave their comfortable office.
I don't think they were atheists. I don't think religion came into it much. All you need is efficient technology to turn a war into a genocide.

[rainbow]

Religion is just another ideology.

It is the Ideology that results in genocide, not religion, and not the lack of it.

[Lion IRC]

It's just a coincidence that the acceptability of atheism has come about at the same time as the increase in scale and efficiency of weapons.
Genocide is much easier to organise, and a lot less personal these days.

The genocides of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were impersonal efficient affairs. The people who give the orders never get any blood on them, they don't ever leave their comfortable office.
I don't think they were atheists. I don't think religion came into it much. All you need is efficient technology to turn a war into a genocide.

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist, rails against biblical mass killing, but the dead children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki want to know, from a physicist, what moral monster invented the atom bomb?

[Hermit]

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist, rails against biblical mass killing, but the dead children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki want to know, from a physicist, what moral monster invented the atom bomb?

Nobody can even approximate the perfection of your god's monstership.

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the Lord your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them." [Deuteronomy 7:1-2]

Or that of his son.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." [Matthew 11:21-24]

More importantly, it's worth pointing three more things out: Firstly, the biblical commands were made in the context of aggression. The nuclear bombs were dropped on a nation that did the attacking. Secondly, the bible commands genocide. The nuclear bombs actually shortened the war and reduced the need to kill. Thirdly, the threat of nuclear war actually prevented world war III from happening.


All of this, of course presumes that your god and son tag team exists in the first place.

[cronus]

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist, rails against biblical mass killing, but the dead children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki want to know, from a physicist, what moral monster invented the atom bomb?

Nobody can even approximate the perfection of your god's monstership.

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the Lord your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them." [Deuteronomy 7:1-2]

Or that of his son.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." [Matthew 11:21-24]

Odd thing about the invention of the atom bomb was Einstein himself felt surprised that his ideas concerning matter and energy had such a profound impact in his own lifetime. The moral of the tale is be careful what you scribble if you are good with abstract ideas.

[Lion IRC]

Interesting.
Got a quote/reference for that Scrumple? TIA

[cronus]

On July 12, 1939, a few months before the beginning of World War II in Europe, Szilárd and Wigner visited Einstein[73] and they explained the possibility of atomic bombs, to which pacifist Einstein replied: Daran habe ich gar nicht gedacht ("I had not thought of that at all").

...from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

Read about it in one of his numerous biography's hundreds of years ago now. There's more to it than meets the eye....I recall, don't think he was expecting the atom to be the proof of his equations....or some such, hard to fully recall what I read in my youth.