Puzzled About Galactic Collisions

[Xamonas Chegwé]

So what?

Gravity plays a major part in physics per se!

It is true that the Quantum model of gravity and the Relativistic model of gravity are fundamentally incompatible but NOT, as is often mis-stated, that Quantum Physics and Relativity are fundamentally incompatible. In fact, the two theoretical platforms mesh perfectly apart from when it comes to gravity. This is, I think, a point worth making.

Reconciling the single point upon which they differ is the holy grail of modern physics. Cue string theory, 11 dimensions and all points weird!

[JimC]

So what?

Gravity plays a major part in physics per se!

It is true that the Quantum model of gravity and the Relativistic model of gravity are fundamentally incompatible but NOT, as is often mis-stated, that Quantum Physics and Relativity are fundamentally incompatible. In fact, the two theoretical platforms mesh perfectly apart from when it comes to gravity. This is, I think, a point worth making.

Reconciling the single point upon which they differ is the holy grail of modern physics. Cue string theory, 11 dimensions and all points weird!

I have a radical theory.

Gravity does not in fact exist. Simply, natural selection has caused organisms to have a delusional perception that they are being held to the Earth, because it aids survival. Organisms without this perception float off into space and die, so there is intense selective pressure.

A bit like consciousness in humans...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Silly frog! Of course gravity exists. In fact, not one but two gravities! Original and specific! Argue with that one!

[Tero]

Jim, I had a similar idea about time. That it is something our brains created.

[MiM]

Well then, the strong and weak electromagnetic force, we created it all. Why not

[JimC]

Well then, the strong and weak electromagnetic force, we created it all. Why not

"All forces great and small, the human mind made them all"

The ultimate solipsism!

[JimC]

Silly frog! Of course gravity exists. In fact, not one but two gravities! Original and specific! Argue with that one!

Careful with thoughts like that! You could start to float away...

[Horwood Beer-Master]

It would be interesting to explore the parallels between this and quantum versus Newtonian physics. The large, in Newtonian physics, is predictable but the tiny, as we know is all over the fuckin' shop. Like us.

We're not at all that tiny in the scale of things; make the planck length into the width of a human hair and your left eyeball becomes an entire universe.

Silly frog! Of course gravity exists. In fact, not one but two gravities! Original and specific! Argue with that one!

This viewpoint is not certified by CAMRG (the CAMpaign for Real Gravity)

[JimC]

This thread is in danger of losing its gravitas...

[Jason]

Just goes to prove that old proverb 'In Vino Gravitas'.

[Tyrannical]

With the Theory of Everything and the state of the universe at the beginning, you could in theory though not in practice predict everything that will ever be.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

With the Theory of Everything and the state of the universe at the beginning, you could in theory though not in practice predict everything that will ever be.

Mr Heisenberg may have a thing or two to say about that.

[Tyrannical]

With the Theory of Everything and the state of the universe at the beginning, you could in theory though not in practice predict everything that will ever be.

Mr Heisenberg may have a thing or two to say about that.

Nope.
It is only uncertain because you can't you can't measure at the quantum level without changing what you are measuring. That does not imply randomness.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

With the Theory of Everything and the state of the universe at the beginning, you could in theory though not in practice predict everything that will ever be.

Mr Heisenberg may have a thing or two to say about that.

Nope.
It is only uncertain because you can't you can't measure at the quantum level without changing what you are measuring. That does not imply randomness.

It is far more fundamental than that. Objects at the quantum level simply do not behave in any way like the macro-objects that we are used to. They simply cannot have both a defined position and a defined momentum simultaneously. Similarly, they cannot have a precise energy level at any precise time. It absolutely DOES imply randomness! Every quantum particle has a non-zero probability of being at ANY point in the universe at any given time!

And not only is it not possible to predict the future course of events, it is not even possible to say how things arrived where they are now (whatever "now" means!) As Richard Feynman stated, all systems are composed of the sum of all of their possible histories. The double slit experiment shows that a single, quantum particle (a photon or electron usually, but larger particles have been shown to produce similar results) actually interferes with itself when given two possible paths from an emittor to a detector - it takes EVERY possible path simultaneously and its wave function only collapses into a specific point when it interracts - ie. when it is detected, either by a human experiment or simply by a collision with another particle.

Quantum physics killed any deterministic view of the universe stone dead.

[JimC]

With the Theory of Everything and the state of the universe at the beginning, you could in theory though not in practice predict everything that will ever be.

Mr Heisenberg may have a thing or two to say about that.

Nope.
It is only uncertain because you can't you can't measure at the quantum level without changing what you are measuring. That does not imply randomness.

It is far more fundamental than that. Objects at the quantum level simply do not behave in any way like the macro-objects that we are used to. They simply cannot have both a defined position and a defined momentum simultaneously. Similarly, they cannot have a precise energy level at any precise time. It absolutely DOES imply randomness! Every quantum particle has a non-zero probability of being at ANY point in the universe at any given time!

And not only is it not possible to predict the future course of events, it is not even possible to say how things arrived where they are now (whatever "now" means!) As Richard Feynman stated, all systems are composed of the sum of all of their possible histories. The double slit experiment shows that a single, quantum particle (a photon or electron usually, but larger particles have been shown to produce similar results) actually interferes with itself when given two possible paths from an emittor to a detector - it takes EVERY possible path simultaneously and its wave function only collapses into a specific point when it interracts - ie. when it is detected, either by a human experiment or simply by a collision with another particle.

Quantum physics killed any deterministic view of the universe stone dead.

In addition to this, the sensitivity to initial conditions which is at the heart of chaos theory adds another layer of unpredictability - it lies at the heart of the intractability of the 3 body gravitational solution, for example.

Even classical physics cannot lead to a clockwork universe...