Is this racist?

[Blind groper]

I like what Morgan Freeman said in that video.

We should take pride in our humanity. Not our race.

[redunderthebed]

one whould be equally accepting of people expressing racial pride by wearing a stormfront tee shirt. Both are associated with groups that include racially divisive elements,.

Incorrect scumfront is based on an idea that white people are superior than anyone else and all sorts of other shit but the first thing is what all members (except those who arent FBI anti-fascist groups etc that are keeping tabs on these morons) agree on. But you are right it does represent a broad range of people from hardcore boneheads (including ones that have done long stretches in jail for firebombing asian restaurants et al) to your average morons who listens to talkback radio and are essentially armchair racists (which constitute the majority sadly of whom if they weren't just listening to crap could stop being racists in most cases).

Anyhoo i have no problem with people being proud of who they are so long as they don't use it as a ruse to hate and kill people.

[Drewish]

Iz funny.. deh Jews in my hood they be nice, except the blackhats who do tend to be pushy and obnoxious.

See, right there. You're have nothing against the Jews, but those that where a specific piece of clothing you have stereotypes about. At what point does it stop being a racial prejudice and start being a cultural prejudice?

Btw, thanks to those of you honestly discussing this without going into the hyperbolic, "Andrew's an evil Nazi!" sort of stuff. I think we all have prejudices (To list another, I automatically assumed that teenage girls who liked rap music were sluts in high school because... well the teenage girls I knew who liked rap music were all sluts). I'd rather know what mine are and openly address them and put them under the scrutiny of empirical analysis than pretend to not judge people based on superficial things when I first meet them. After all, if I am making an assumption, but it's not statistically accurate I should change my thinking. If a stereotype is very much accurate though, then I have no problem with holding it, even if it is considered political incorrect to do so.

[Audley Strange]

I might be wrong about this, but I think the issue is that "White Pride" is looked upon by most other factions of humanity and many within the "white" faction as deeply questionable. We look at people who are promoting "White pride" and think "racists" so why not those who promote "Black Pride" or "Asian Pride".

If I'm not mistaken, and I could well be, his point is one about self definition by group identity, which is something I can relate to since I'm often suspicious of people who label themselves in such ways considering that having pride in Nation or Political Ideology or Religion when most of them have acted, in the main, pretty fucking appallingly for most of the fucking time.

[Drewish]

I might be wrong about this, but I think the issue is that "White Pride" is looked upon by most other factions of humanity and many within the "white" faction as deeply questionable. We look at people who are promoting "White pride" and think "racists" so why not those who promote "Black Pride" or "Asian Pride".

If I'm not mistaken, and I could well be, his point is one about self definition by group identity, which is something I can relate to since I'm often suspicious of people who label themselves in such ways considering that having pride in Nation or Political Ideology or Religion when most of them have acted, in the main, pretty fucking appallingly for most of the fucking time.

Oh it's not that I fear them, but yes, I do assume that somebody who has strong racial pride is a racist. I've found that a lot of people agree with me regarding people who are, "very Jewish." At some point I realized that it was not so much the result of rampant anti-Semitism, but rather that looking down on other peoples and an unfounded sense of superiority were built into the Jewish ideology. It's an innately racist religion. I don't think my distaste for practicioners of Afro-centrism needs to be justified even.

Hades,

Are you Italian? I'm asking because you seem to be coming to their defense the most readily here, and I just want to know if I'm touching on a personal nerve here before engaging you directly in this thread.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you're proud of your skin color, what does that say about your accomplishments?

[Audley Strange]

Oh it's not that I fear them, but yes, I do assume that somebody who has strong racial pride is a racist. I've found that a lot of people agree with me regarding people who are, "very Jewish." At some point I realized that it was not so much the result of rampant anti-Semitism, but rather that looking down on other peoples and an unfounded sense of superiority were built into the Jewish ideology. It's an innately racist religion. I don't think my distaste for practicioners of Afro-centrism needs to be justified even.

Well I don't think it's exclusive to the Jewish faith to think they're superior, examples of that are common throughout history and diverse culture. Which is in essence what racism is, the belief that all other races are inferior BECAUSE one's own race is superior. Racism is "I'm better than you because of a long entirely mindless and predictable mathematical series of copulations in an arbitrary landscape makes me so." Pride in one's race is slightly different but equally as banal, "I love a social fiction because of a long entirely mindless and predictable mathematical series of copulations in an arbitrary landscape."

It's like the difference of being proud of being able to shit and thinking your own smells better than everyone elses.

Is it racist to question it? No, I'd say it was racist to assume it should not be called into question, because it implies a discrimination against one race for celebrating their repugnant culture while encouraging others to do so freely.

[Svartalf]

Iz funny.. deh Jews in my hood they be nice, except the blackhats who do tend to be pushy and obnoxious.

See, right there. You're have nothing against the Jews, but those that where a specific piece of clothing you have stereotypes about. At what point does it stop being a racial prejudice and start being a cultural prejudice?

Btw, thanks to those of you honestly discussing this without going into the hyperbolic, "Andrew's an evil Nazi!" sort of stuff. I think we all have prejudices (To list another, I automatically assumed that teenage girls who liked rap music were sluts in high school because... well the teenage girls I knew who liked rap music were all sluts). I'd rather know what mine are and openly address them and put them under the scrutiny of empirical analysis than pretend to not judge people based on superficial things when I first meet them. After all, if I am making an assumption, but it's not statistically accurate I should change my thinking. If a stereotype is very much accurate though, then I have no problem with holding it, even if it is considered political incorrect to do so.

Cultural prejudice my foot... you don't get the difference between conservative jew and lubavitch until you see a bunch of the latter trying to get preferential treatment, cut the line, and that kind of thing, because the people in front of them are goyim/tourists.

[Blind groper]

I have been told, though lack personal experience of this, that the most racist people on the planet are the Japanese, who have a kind of built in belief in their own superiority. Of course, it is not as obvious as with some peoples, because the Japanese also have a culture of exquisite courtesy, meaning they do not openly show the contempt they feel.

However, that is just what I have been told, so could be wrong.

[Svartalf]

If you're proud of your skin color, what does that say about your accomplishments?

That it's more meritorious to be good at math if you're a cracker than it is for a gook.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you're proud of your skin color, what does that say about your accomplishments?

That it's more meritorious to be good at math if you're a cracker than it is for a gook.

... or, alternatively, that you have an empty trophy-case.

[Svartalf]

I have been told, though lack personal experience of this, that the most racist people on the planet are the Japanese, who have a kind of built in belief in their own superiority. Of course, it is not as obvious as with some peoples, because the Japanese also have a culture of exquisite courtesy, meaning they do not openly show the contempt they feel.

However, that is just what I have been told, so could be wrong.

Actually, most East Asian countries have a sense of cultural superiority so strong it is virtually foolproof.

The Japanese are a well known case, but Koreans are just as bad (AFAIK, FBM please correct me if I err)
The Chinese spit on the rest of the world, but Beijing, Canton and Shanghai are in constant pissing contests with each other to see where do the REAL Han live.
and Viets gleefully dismiss all the Northerner barbarians...

[hadespussercats]

On the subject of white pride-- I think Columbus Day and St. Patrick's Day are celebrations of white pride. At least in New York, that's what they seem like...

(Examples to illustrate that white pride need not involve the Klan.)

St. Patrick's day is explicitly Irish, and is not a national holiday. Columbus day might serve to provide a national holiday for whites like Martin Luther King day does for blacks, but racial pride is more than just a one day thing.

To be more explicit, I think if one is okay with people expressing racial pride by wearing a black pride tee shirt, one whould be equally accepting of people expressing racial pride by wearing a stormfront tee shirt. Both are associated with groups that include racially divisive elements, but are broad enough that they are worn by people who don't necessarily agree with those elements.

Andrewclunn wants to mock people who wear those tee shirts. I'm okay with their wearing the tee shirts, but I'll disagree with the racially divisive rhetoric when I see it. I also recognize that those groups do not represent all people of their respective races.

Word.

[hadespussercats]

On the subject of white pride-- I think Columbus Day and St. Patrick's Day are celebrations of white pride. At least in New York, that's what they seem like...

(Examples to illustrate that white pride need not involve the Klan.)

St. Patrick's day is explicitly Irish, and is not a national holiday. Columbus day might serve to provide a national holiday for whites like Martin Luther King day does for blacks, but racial pride is more than just a one day thing.

(snip.)

The holiday thing was just a little example of what I was thinking about-- the first that came to mind.

Though St. Patrick's Day isn't an official US holiday, anyone who lives in Boston's greater metro area (ahem) or in New York knows that it's a widely and thoroughly celebrated holiday-- and the celebrants aren't all of Irish extraction. Much like the people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo aren't all Mexican.

[Warren Dew]

Though St. Patrick's Day isn't an official US holiday, anyone who lives in Boston's greater metro area (ahem) or in New York knows that it's a widely and thoroughly celebrated holiday-- and the celebrants aren't all of Irish extraction. Much like the people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo aren't all Mexican.

It is widely celebrated, but mostly after work, not instead of work.

Or maybe I just live in an Italian area of the Boston metro region.