Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Trolldor » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:36 pm

redunderthebed wrote:its a sovereign country it might not be nice nor acceptable but if you respect their sovereignty and start treating it with respect it you might get somewhere.

What faggotry is this? Why should we respect a nation who starves its people and fails to support them in even the most basic of necessities? State Sovereignty is complete fucking bullshit pulled out of the ass of the left who don't want to admit that everyone is responsible for everyone. Most importantly, they play right in to the hands of the right-wing nationalistic ass bandits who think their lump of mud is better or more important than someone else's because they were born there.

The US's role is to be hated, that's what they're there for.
They just have to be hated for the right things.
Stopping KJI is the right thing to be hated for - they just have to watch how they do it. The problem with Iraq was that the Bush administration tried to fight terror with terror, and only convinced the skepitcs that America was as evil as it claimed.
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:45 pm

State Sovereignty is based on Statehood, which is merely a convenient fiction. There are no real boundaries between countries. We imagine them and mostly agree to play the same game by the same made-up rules. What is closer to the truth is that we are all inter-dependent members of the same sentient species, and regardless of where we live, what language we speak and what flag we (are forced to) salute, our common humanity both underlies and outweighs those superficial and transient conventions. Acting to rescue starving, imprisoned and chronically abused, manipulated people in N. Korea is no different from the State going into a household to rescue abused/neglected children. It's based on the same principle of moral obligation, which is itself based upon basic human decency and compassion. If you imagine that the father of that household is waving a shotgun around, firing it into the air and scaring the shit out of the whole neighborhood, it only makes sense that others would feel the need to step in and intervene at some point. Who would naturally be the first to raise the alarm? Of course, those whose houses the father is pointing the shotgun at: S. Korea, Japan and the U.S. It's not surprising that someone further down the block, out of range, would be more likely to say, 'Ah. Leave it be. It'll work itself out.'
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by AshtonBlack » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 pm

So who's up for an invation then?

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:14 pm

AshtonBlack wrote:So who's up for an invation then?
Read this first.
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:38 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:So who's up for an invation then?
Read this first.
I got nuthin' with that link...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:40 pm

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:So who's up for an invation then?
Read this first.
I got nuthin' with that link...
Works for me. Try pasting it in your browser? http://www.history.army.mil/books/P&D.HTM
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:44 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:So who's up for an invation then?
Read this first.
I got nuthin' with that link...
Works for me. Try pasting it in your browser? http://www.history.army.mil/books/P&D.HTM
Nope. Nada. Keep in mind that we're still technically at war, so our overlords restrict access to certain materials...c&p for me?
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:48 pm

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:So who's up for an invation then?
Read this first.
I got nuthin' with that link...
Works for me. Try pasting it in your browser? http://www.history.army.mil/books/P&D.HTM
Nope. Nada. Keep in mind that we're still technically at war, so our overlords restrict access to certain materials...c&p for me?
UNITED STATES ARMY IN THE KOREAN WAR
POLICY AND DIRECTION:
THE FIRST YEAR

by
James F. Schnabel

CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY
UNITED STATES ARMY
WASHINGTON, D. C., 1992

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 70-6O9930

First Printed 1972-CMH Pub 20-1-1
ISBN 0-16-035955-4
I'm not surprised the site is blocked. :what:
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:58 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Nope. Nada. Keep in mind that we're still technically at war, so our overlords restrict access to certain materials...c&p for me?
UNITED STATES ARMY IN THE KOREAN WAR
POLICY AND DIRECTION:
THE FIRST YEAR

by
James F. Schnabel

CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY
UNITED STATES ARMY
WASHINGTON, D. C., 1992

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 70-6O9930

First Printed 1972-CMH Pub 20-1-1
ISBN 0-16-035955-4
I'm not surprised the site is blocked. :what:
Mmmm...yeeaaahhh. That might be considered 'sensitive material' over here. Can you give a quick synopsis?
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:02 pm

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Nope. Nada. Keep in mind that we're still technically at war, so our overlords restrict access to certain materials...c&p for me?
UNITED STATES ARMY IN THE KOREAN WAR
POLICY AND DIRECTION:
THE FIRST YEAR

by
James F. Schnabel

CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY
UNITED STATES ARMY
WASHINGTON, D. C., 1992

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 70-6O9930

First Printed 1972-CMH Pub 20-1-1
ISBN 0-16-035955-4
I'm not surprised the site is blocked. :what:
Mmmm...yeeaaahhh. That might be considered 'sensitive material' over here. Can you give a quick synopsis?
Preface

This book is intended to elucidate United States policy during the Korean War and to describe the strategies and command methods by which that policy was carried out. The major decisions that determined the United States course in Korea and continued to influence the nation's responses to Communist aggression during the two decades that followed were taken during the first twelve months of the Korean fighting. Although the war continued for another two years, no significant change was made in the policy developed between President Truman's decision to intervene in June 1950 and the beginning of Armistice negotiations at Kaesong in July 1951. This book concentrates on that initial period.

One of the unique aspects of the Korean War was the close control which Washington maintained at all times over operations in the field. Routine transactions and problems which during World War II would have been handled by a theater commander became, during Korea, matters of great concern to the nation's highest officials in Washington. These exceptional practices were owing in large part to the scarcity of United States military resources when the war began and to the real danger that a miscalculation in Korea might result in a full-scale war with the Soviet Union and/or Communist China. The vast distance between Washington and the Far East served to hinder effective, timely communication, further complicating the problems of directing the war.

I was not aware of it at the time, but work on this book began three days after the North Korean invasion when I, as an Army captain of artillery assigned to the Historical Branch, G-2, GHQ, FEC, in Tokyo, was called to General MacArthur's personal file room in the Dai Ichi Building to examine copies of first teleconferences between CINCFE and Washington. Notes taken that day marked the beginning of nearly three years of research in Tokyo and, briefly, in Korea. Upon my return to Washington in mid-1953 I was designated to prepare the present volume. The first draft of this work was submitted to the Office, Chief of Military History, in June 1956 concurrently with my transfer to Paris, where I served until June 1960 as Chief Historian, SHAPE and Allied Command Europe. Returning to the Office of the Chief of Military History in July 1960 I was able, although assigned additional duties, to make revisions indicated as a result of the intensive review and criticism of the manuscript that had taken place in my four-year absence. Following my retirement from the Army in August 1964 further revision was performed by Mr. Billy C. Mossman and by Dr. Stetson Conn, then Chief Historian.

So many individuals have contributed to the present volume that it would be impossible for me to thank all of them publicly. There are those, however, to whom I owe special debts of gratitude. During the early years of my work on this history I received particular encouragement and very wise counsel from Col. Allison R. Hartman, then Chief, Historical Branch, G-2, GHQ, FEC. Among those outside critics who have reviewed all or part of the manuscript in its various stages and to whom I am indebted for valuable comments and ideas are General J. Lawton Collins, General Matthew B. Ridgway, Lt. Gen. Edward M. Almond, Mr. Robert Amory, formerly Deputy for Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency, and Mr. Wilber W. Hoare, Jr., Chief, Historical Division, Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Other individuals within the Office of the Chief of Military History whose help and advice have been exceptionally valuable to me include the Editor in Chief, Mr. Joseph R. Friedman, whose literary guidance has contributed greatly in the final revision of the manuscript; Mr. Charles V. P. von Luttichau, who is responsible for the fine maps which accompany the text; Dr. Louis Morton and Dr. John Miller, jr., for their suggestions and criticism while they were with the Office of the Chief of Military History; Mr. David Jaffe, whose diligence and skill as an editor I have good reason to appreciate; and Mrs. Stephanie B. Demma, who rendered most able assistance to Mr. Jaffe. The index was prepared by Mr. Nicholas J. Anthony.

Finally, I would be remiss were I not to recognize gratefully the support I received from the several Chiefs of Military History under whom I served during the preparation of this volume: Maj. Gen. Orlando Ward, Maj. Gen. Albert C. Smith, Brig. Gen. James A. Norell, Brig. Gen. William H. Harris, and Brig. Gen. Hal C. Pattison.

That I have acknowledged the contributions made by those persons named above in no way implies that they share responsibility for the interpretations of this book or for any deficiencies that it may have. Responsibility for them is mine alone
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:03 pm

FBM, I can zip a copy and email it to you, or put in on a site where you can download it.
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by AshtonBlack » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:08 pm

Personally, I wouldn't be shifting that sort of data around FMB, if it's "sensitive" then it could raise the wrong eyebrows. (Of course, Zilla could encrypt it after it's zipped and use a webmail service, via an international proxy.)

(I know it sounds stupid, but one man's interesting data, is another man's political propaganda.)
Last edited by AshtonBlack on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:FBM, I can zip a copy and email it to you, or put in on a site where you can download it.
E-mail should be fine! I'm gonna lock my door and barricade myself behind a few cases of kimchee for the next week, just in case. :shifty:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:13 pm

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:FBM, I can zip a copy and email it to you, or put in on a site where you can download it.
E-mail should be fine! I'm gonna lock my door and barricade myself behind a few cases of kimchee for the next week, just in case. :shifty:
Zokay. Will be emailed today.
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Re: Should 'we' strike N. Korea first?

Post by FBM » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:21 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:FBM, I can zip a copy and email it to you, or put in on a site where you can download it.
E-mail should be fine! I'm gonna lock my door and barricade myself behind a few cases of kimchee for the next week, just in case. :shifty:
Zokay. Will be emailed today.
Excellent. Incidentally, if you notice an unusual number of Asian-looking personnel in your neighborhood in the next few days...I don't know you. :ddpan:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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