Women at Atheist/Skeptic Events - Uncomfortable?

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito, reading the above^^: are you still sticking to the strict interpretation of the "made to feel uncomfortable" wording: that someone must be doing something on purpose, and that and precisely that (and nothing else) is the problem that you want to address?

I'll refer you back to the OP. It's based on what Skepchick is talking about - women being "made to" feel uncomfortable, not based on any "strict interpretation." I don't think, however, that failure to provide child care facilities is something that "makes women uncomfortable" whether intentionally with the purpose to make a woman uncomfortable, or in general.

Are you suggesting that the failure to provide a daycare center at the American Atheists convention is one way that women are "made to feel uncomfortable?"

This isn't a one way street. I answered your questions in the last post, and I posed my own. Please do me the courtesy of answering my questions, since I do answer yours.

[hadespussercats]

Now we are getting somewhere substantial regarding what could be done to make it easier for women (and in Finland, also for a steady growing number of homemaker men whose kids are too young to be left alone for a couple of hours in the evening). Inspired by this thread I have been thinking of how our local freethinker chapter could utilize e.g. the library's story or games groups for school-age kids, while their parents are at our meet. There is a library just across the street from the pub where our weekly meetings are held...

For the toddlers and preschoolers it would likely need to be something different, though. Some more thinking required. If anyone has ideas or experiences, please do share!

This sort of thing would certainly help me attend conferences in the future-- and might go some way public-relations wise to promote the notion that atheists and skeptics are just as invested in family life as churchgoers are.

Ronja seems to have missed/forgot, that our freethinkers group has also arranged a couple of "family gatherings" in the last months. We haven't attended, so I don't know any details, but as far as I understand the idea has been to meet at family friendly premise, where the adults can talk and socialise, while the kids get to play with each other.

That's really great. I'd love to have events like that in my part of the world.

You've inspired me to look into this some more, see if there's anything like that out there. And maybe, once I get settled into parenting, I could help organize something similar...

[Gallstones]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

[floppit]

The thing about rational thought is that you don't want children involved! Meh, I'd love family events. I reckon Ratz has at least blazed a trail letting a munchkin attend some of a meet!

[Coito ergo sum]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

[Coito ergo sum]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

[hadespussercats]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

Free child care to men and women would make most moviegoers more comfortable-- no babies screaming during the show.

[Coito ergo sum]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

Free child care to men and women would make most moviegoers more comfortable-- no babies screaming during the show.

I don't ever hear babies screaming during a movie, and I don't think I've ever heard a baby in a movie. Should babies even be brought to movie theaters, given the loud music and noises?

Is your answer to the question, "yes, the failure of movie theaters to provide child care services free of charge to women makes women uncomfortable?" Being made to feel uncomfortable is not the same as saying "if we give you X, you'll be more comfortable."

You see my point here? I mean - it would make me more comfortable if they gave me a reclining chair and jerked me off during the movie, and if I could just text my order for popcorn and soda to the concession stand and have them bring it to me. That would be wonderful and very much more comfortable than the movie experience today, but that doesn't mean the theater's failure to provide comfy chairs and happy endings and table service "makes me uncomfortable." See?

The same logic applies to child care services -- heck, if they provided free food and beverages to women with children, paid their mortgage and covered their medical bills, that would probably make it much more comfortable to go to the theater and/or an atheist event (by removing some financial obstacles to going) - but, is that what is meant when someone says "women are made to feel uncomfortable at atheist events [or theaters]?" Because, I tell ya, if it is - if that's what is meant - then I'd be quite surprised. That's the same for everybody, so to say that it's peculiar to women, or that WOMEN are "made to feel uncomfortable" because babysitters aren't free, doesn't make any sense, or to suggest/imply/state that it's some form of "wrong" meted out on women, well, frankly, that doesn't make sense.

If American Atheists, or some other large group, has a convention and they can fit "free day care" into the budget - they would do well to include that, because that would be a huge cost savings to parents, not just women, who want to attend and not leave their kids for a weekend. It's not going to happen at small events, I'm sure, because most atheist/skeptic groups operate on a shoestring and a few hundred dollars for a picnic is commonly the extent of it, and most local groups monthly events have budgets under $100, if it's even above "0."

[Gallstones]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

I've never needed a laxative in my life.
An enema was forced on me once as a child.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

I've never needed a laxative in my life.
An enema was forced on me once as a child.

Sucks to be you.

[Gallstones]

When I was still Catholic I started and ran a nursery on the premises where the younger kids could be while their parents attended mass. It was a welcome option for many who had young children who couldn't sit for the mass. I started it because I needed it myself. When my son was no longer a disruptive toddler, I gave the nursery over to someone else. These things can be made to happen and there is this one instance where it did help people attend something they were having to miss much of the time. It was manned by volunteers.

[Gallstones]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

I've never needed a laxative in my life.
An enema was forced on me once as a child.

Sucks to be you.

Only part of the time.

[Coito ergo sum]

When I was still Catholic I started and ran a nursery on the premises where the younger kids could be while their parents attended mass. It was a welcome option for many who had young children who couldn't sit for the mass. I started it because I needed it myself. When my son was no longer a disruptive toddler, I gave the nursery over to someone else. These things can be made to happen and there is this one instance where it did help people attend something they were having to miss much of the time. It was manned by volunteers.

I don't think there is a person in the world that could argue that providing free child care to parents doesn't make it easier to do things. That, of course, says nothing about whether a failure to provide such care "made women feel uncomfortable" and whether that's what's meat when feminists say that women are "made to feel uncomfortable."

[Gallstones]

This is what's meat.

[hadespussercats]

When I was still Catholic I started and ran a nursery on the premises where the younger kids could be while their parents attended mass. It was a welcome option for many who had young children who couldn't sit for the mass. I started it because I needed it myself. When my son was no longer a disruptive toddler, I gave the nursery over to someone else. These things can be made to happen and there is this one instance where it did help people attend something they were having to miss much of the time. It was manned by volunteers.

I don't think there is a person in the world that could argue that providing free child care to parents doesn't make it easier to do things. That, of course, says nothing about whether a failure to provide such care "made women feel uncomfortable" and whether that's what's meat when feminists say that women are "made to feel uncomfortable."

I think the conversation shifted to what would make it easier for more women to attend atheist events, rather than whether or not women are "made to feel uncomfortable" at them, because we've covered the latter subject as thoroughly as any of the current participants want. What haven't we covered? what are you looking to hear people say? Maybe you should recruit some more women, with different viewpoints, if you want to keep the conversation strictly to the issue you defined in the OP.