Women at Atheist/Skeptic Events - Uncomfortable?

[Coito ergo sum]

Since I have never been to one, what happens at these events?

There are speakers and people sit in the audience and listen, and then there is mingling, and people usually have booths or tables set up hawking books and other wares.

What is talked about?

Depends on the conference. Videos are available on youtube.

They might simply be boring.

to most people, they would be insanely boring. That's the point I have been making. Most people are not interested in these things. I only added that in my view, fewer women than men are interested in these things. That should not be any more controversial than fewer men than women are interested in high-heeled shoes, or fewer women than men like professional American Football. It just appears to be the way it is - the demographic.

What is the need for the numbers to be equal? What is gained that is now missing--other than more vaginas in chairs?

When I was involved in a leadership fashion, I wanted the numbers to be equal because I find groups where the numbers of men to women are more equal to be more interesting and fun. I didn't want to be have a guys club where I meet a bunch of geeky, egghead men - I like having women involved. It also becomes more social when men and women are together in groups. Also, for the health of these kinds of organizations, having more equal numbers is conducive to getting people to come back. If you market a group as "Hey! Come join our group! We have a bunch of men talking about the latest thoughts on religion, atheism, agnosticism, etc." I think you'll get fewer men and women wanting to attend regularly. If, however, you can show that you have a very nice mixed group, where people can actually socialize while also discussing the serious issues, I think the total membership base increases.

I also noticed that women who showed up and were the only woman out of 10 or with one other woman in a group of 20, tended not to participate much, and tended not to return. Maybe women feel out of place if they are in such low numbers - I wouldn't be surprised if men felt out of place if alone in a room full of women in a club or group. I would caution about calling that "being made to feel uncomfortable," though.

[Coito ergo sum]

if childcare access is the issue, then that is solved one way - by finding a way to provide more child care. But if being made, at atheist/skeptic events specifically, to feel uncomfortable, then the solution would be something else. Wouldn't it?

Coito, are you now suggesting that the availability of childcare in connection to atheist/skeptic/etc events would not influence if women feel comfortable (good) about attending?

I'm not sure your defining "made to feel uncomfortable," the same way I am. I don't interpret anything that Skepchick and others have been saying about women being made to feel uncomfortable to refer to the general good feeling about attending. I mean - men might well feel "good" about attending if they can bring their kids their too. That's not about whether someone is being "made to feel uncomfortable."

Are you suggesting that women are "made to feel uncomfortable" because not enough free child care services are provided on site?

In other word, are you suggesting that arrangements that through their existence acknowledge that women (and parents in general) are a part of the atheist/skeptic/etc community would have no effect on how comfortable women (and parents in general) feel about attending?

I think that's a completely different issue than someone being "made to feel uncomfortable at atheist/skeptic events."

Are you honestly suggesting that the reason women are "made to feel uncomfortable" is about the provision of childcare? That the lack of childcare is what "makes women feel uncomfortable?"

My interpretation of women being made to feel uncomfortable was that something was happening, something was going on, at atheist/skeptic events that make women feel uncomfortable.

[Ronja]

Coito, reading the above^^: are you still sticking to the strict interpretation of the "made to feel uncomfortable" wording: that someone must be doing something on purpose, and that and precisely that (and nothing else) is the problem that you want to address?

[Coito ergo sum]

I just think Skepchick is wrong when she says that women are generally made to feel uncomfortable at atheist/skeptic conventions. I don't see any evidence for it.

I think she overemphasized it as a reason.

Well, we certainly agree 100% there.

I agree with Gallstones...

.....that men sometimes make women feel uncomfortable, but I don't see it as being worse at atheist/skeptic conventions, so I don't see it as explaining why women don't go there, as opposed to elsewhere (a point Seabass made).

Men make some women feel uncomfortable in some situations; women make some men feel uncomfortable in some situations, and so it has been for millenia (no I'm not going to substantiate that). There are many situations and an atheist event would not be unique in character such that the male majority who attend would be changed by it into horny, slavering, ogling boobs.

And, therefore, it would not explain why women's attendance at atheist/skeptic events is so disproportionately low.

Sure as I am here causing Coito to get all emotional with my snark and my ways,

there are additional reasons for the low attendance of women at atheist/skeptic events and their ilk.

Nobody could possibly argue otherwise. Obviously, if not discomfort, the disproportionately low attendance of women at these events must be for "additional reasons."

[MiM]

Now we are getting somewhere substantial regarding what could be done to make it easier for women (and in Finland, also for a steady growing number of homemaker men whose kids are too young to be left alone for a couple of hours in the evening). Inspired by this thread I have been thinking of how our local freethinker chapter could utilize e.g. the library's story or games groups for school-age kids, while their parents are at our meet. There is a library just across the street from the pub where our weekly meetings are held...

For the toddlers and preschoolers it would likely need to be something different, though. Some more thinking required. If anyone has ideas or experiences, please do share!

This sort of thing would certainly help me attend conferences in the future-- and might go some way public-relations wise to promote the notion that atheists and skeptics are just as invested in family life as churchgoers are.

Ronja seems to have missed/forgot, that our freethinkers group has also arranged a couple of "family gatherings" in the last months. We haven't attended, so I don't know any details, but as far as I understand the idea has been to meet at family friendly premise, where the adults can talk and socialise, while the kids get to play with each other.

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito, reading the above^^: are you still sticking to the strict interpretation of the "made to feel uncomfortable" wording: that someone must be doing something on purpose, and that and precisely that (and nothing else) is the problem that you want to address?

I'll refer you back to the OP. It's based on what Skepchick is talking about - women being "made to" feel uncomfortable, not based on any "strict interpretation." I don't think, however, that failure to provide child care facilities is something that "makes women uncomfortable" whether intentionally with the purpose to make a woman uncomfortable, or in general.

Are you suggesting that the failure to provide a daycare center at the American Atheists convention is one way that women are "made to feel uncomfortable?"

This isn't a one way street. I answered your questions in the last post, and I posed my own. Please do me the courtesy of answering my questions, since I do answer yours.

[hadespussercats]

Now we are getting somewhere substantial regarding what could be done to make it easier for women (and in Finland, also for a steady growing number of homemaker men whose kids are too young to be left alone for a couple of hours in the evening). Inspired by this thread I have been thinking of how our local freethinker chapter could utilize e.g. the library's story or games groups for school-age kids, while their parents are at our meet. There is a library just across the street from the pub where our weekly meetings are held...

For the toddlers and preschoolers it would likely need to be something different, though. Some more thinking required. If anyone has ideas or experiences, please do share!

This sort of thing would certainly help me attend conferences in the future-- and might go some way public-relations wise to promote the notion that atheists and skeptics are just as invested in family life as churchgoers are.

Ronja seems to have missed/forgot, that our freethinkers group has also arranged a couple of "family gatherings" in the last months. We haven't attended, so I don't know any details, but as far as I understand the idea has been to meet at family friendly premise, where the adults can talk and socialise, while the kids get to play with each other.

That's really great. I'd love to have events like that in my part of the world.

You've inspired me to look into this some more, see if there's anything like that out there. And maybe, once I get settled into parenting, I could help organize something similar...

[Gallstones]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

[floppit]

The thing about rational thought is that you don't want children involved! Meh, I'd love family events. I reckon Ratz has at least blazed a trail letting a munchkin attend some of a meet!

[Coito ergo sum]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

[Coito ergo sum]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

[hadespussercats]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

Free child care to men and women would make most moviegoers more comfortable-- no babies screaming during the show.

[Coito ergo sum]

Do movie theaters make women uncomfortable by not providing child care services free of charge to women?

Free child care to men and women would make most moviegoers more comfortable-- no babies screaming during the show.

I don't ever hear babies screaming during a movie, and I don't think I've ever heard a baby in a movie. Should babies even be brought to movie theaters, given the loud music and noises?

Is your answer to the question, "yes, the failure of movie theaters to provide child care services free of charge to women makes women uncomfortable?" Being made to feel uncomfortable is not the same as saying "if we give you X, you'll be more comfortable."

You see my point here? I mean - it would make me more comfortable if they gave me a reclining chair and jerked me off during the movie, and if I could just text my order for popcorn and soda to the concession stand and have them bring it to me. That would be wonderful and very much more comfortable than the movie experience today, but that doesn't mean the theater's failure to provide comfy chairs and happy endings and table service "makes me uncomfortable." See?

The same logic applies to child care services -- heck, if they provided free food and beverages to women with children, paid their mortgage and covered their medical bills, that would probably make it much more comfortable to go to the theater and/or an atheist event (by removing some financial obstacles to going) - but, is that what is meant when someone says "women are made to feel uncomfortable at atheist events [or theaters]?" Because, I tell ya, if it is - if that's what is meant - then I'd be quite surprised. That's the same for everybody, so to say that it's peculiar to women, or that WOMEN are "made to feel uncomfortable" because babysitters aren't free, doesn't make any sense, or to suggest/imply/state that it's some form of "wrong" meted out on women, well, frankly, that doesn't make sense.

If American Atheists, or some other large group, has a convention and they can fit "free day care" into the budget - they would do well to include that, because that would be a huge cost savings to parents, not just women, who want to attend and not leave their kids for a weekend. It's not going to happen at small events, I'm sure, because most atheist/skeptic groups operate on a shoestring and a few hundred dollars for a picnic is commonly the extent of it, and most local groups monthly events have budgets under $100, if it's even above "0."

[Gallstones]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

I've never needed a laxative in my life.
An enema was forced on me once as a child.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think there is some evidence that some person has removed the stick from his ass. At least temporarily.

pssst....whaddya have there? A telephone pole up yours? Must be more difficult to remove....

I've never needed a laxative in my life.
An enema was forced on me once as a child.

Sucks to be you.