Woody Allen - do you agree?

[Tigger]

[Epictetus]

"One must have one's delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and too clearly life does become unbearable because it's a pretty grim enterprise"

I agree with Woody Allen on this point. It reminds me of the sort of self-delusion commonly engaged in by certain religious enthusiasts who often echo the Rev. William Paley, when he said:

“It is a happy world after all. The air, the earth, the water, teem with delighted existence.”

It's a Panglossian malady for which, I'm afraid, there is no cure.

Myself, I tend to take a more pessimistic/realistic view of matters as articulated by, say, Charles Darwin or Mark Twain.

Surely, if you agree with Allen, everybody must have one's delusions to live, and neither Darwin nor Twain is exempt from that either.

We behold the face of nature bright with gladness, we often see superabundance of food; we do not see, or we forget, that the birds which are idly singing round us mostly live on insects or seeds, and are thus constantly destroying life; or we forget how largely these songsters, or their eggs, or their nestlings, are destroyed by birds and beasts of prey; we do not always bear in mind, that though food may be now superabundant, it is not so at all seasons of each recurring year.

Darwin certainly didn't share the Panglossian optimism which assures us that this is "the best off all possible worlds", nor the naive belief in Providence as articulated by William Paley.

Incidentally, it was Nietzsche who called it an error to abandon oneself to "Providence": "In the great whirlpool of forces man stands with the conceit that this whirlpool is rational and has a rational aim: an error! The only rational thing we know is what little reason man has: he must exert it a lot, and it is always ruinous for him when he abandons himself, say, to "Providence."

[Ex~]

Perhaps my favorite quote of all time is from Woody Allen:

"Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering -- and it's all over much too soon."

Of course, I have one problem with that quote: seeing as life is the longest thing you'll ever do, how could you suggest it's short? That being said, the human imagination is far more vast than the reality we are constrained to, for good reason.

[LaMont Cranston]

I like Woody Allen's early movies a lot better than the stuff he has done over the past 25 years or so. Movies like "Play It Again Sam," "Bananas," "Manhattan," "Annie Hall" and "Hannah and Her Sisters" had some very clever looks into relationships and other human foibles. It seems to me that he has taken himself much too seriously and is trying to out Fellini Felini.

Or, as Fielding Melish says in "Bananas," "It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham."

[colubridae]

I like Woody Allen's early movies a lot better than the stuff he has done over the past 25 years or so. Movies like "Play It Again Sam," "Bananas," "Manhattan," "Annie Hall" and "Hannah and Her Sisters" had some very clever looks into relationships and other human foibles. It seems to me that he has taken himself much too seriously and is trying to out Fellini Felini.

Or, as Fielding Melish says in "Bananas," "It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham."

I tried to out fellini felini once. I just looked a bit of a felllini.

[MrFungus420]

I am a fan of his movies generally speaking. He has a new one out called ' You Will Meet A Tall Dark Stranger'...his obsession with death etc..

"One must have one's delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and too clearly life does become unbearable because it's a pretty grim enterprise," Allen says.

"This is my prospective and has always been my prospective on life - I have a very grim, pessimistic view of it.

"I do feel that it is a grim, painful, nightmarish, meaningless experience and that the only way that you can be happy is if you tell yourself some lies and deceive yourself."

Do you agree?

Pretty much.

Unfortunately, I don't have the delusions. Life in general is meaningless. My life in particular is shit. There is nothing that I look forward to. My only goal at this point is to live longer than my mother so that she doesn't have to deal with her son's death.

[rachelbean]

Woody Allen is a uniquely insightful, funny and creative person. Even his worst films - and he has made a few stinkers - contain moments of sublime genius. Above all, he has never been ashamed of his intelligence and never paid lip-service to any common denominator nor respected any sacred cows.

His obsession with death and mortality is long-standing and well documented. Basically, he recognises, as do all honest atheists, that he has nothing but a short vacation in this life in which to make his mark. From my point of view, of course he is right. But then again, considering myself an honest atheist too, I would say that, wouldn't I?

I guess I'm the only one who is gonna agree with XC on this one. But uh...yeah, what he said

One of my favorite bits of dialogue (from Love and Death):

The question is have I learned anything about life. Only that human being are divided into mind and body. The mind embraces all the nobler aspirations, like poetry and philosophy, but the body has all the fun. The important thing, I think, is not to be bitter... if it turns out that there IS a God, I don't think that He's evil. I think that the worst you can say about Him is that basically He's an underachiever. After all, there are worse things in life than death. If you've ever spent an evening with an insurance salesman, you know what I'm talking about. The key is, to not think of death as an end, but as more of a very effective way to cut down on your expenses. Regarding love, heh, what can you say? It's not the quantity of your sexual relations that counts. It's the quality. On the other hand if the quantity drops below once every eight months, I would definitely look into. Well, that's about it for me folks. Goodbye.

[MrFungus420]

Anyone else feel uplifted?

No. Not in the least.

I don't see anything about it that should or could be uplifting.

[amused]

He investigates this theme a little bit in A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy with some mystical allusions to the unseen world. It's also a light-hearted bit of Allen for those who might want to try him again.

[Cunt]

Anyone else feel uplifted?

No. Not in the least.

I don't see anything about it that should or could be uplifting.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to explain it better...

I just read it again. For me, something about the hopelessness of it all inspires me.

No matter what we do, how hard we work, how good a job we do at living life, no-one is going to give a fuck in a few hundred years. All our most brilliant contributions will be buried in obscurity - at best.

Some folks have done stuff anyway, like the Hoover Dam, or dedicating themselves to the care of a loved one, or fighting to death for their homeland.

Fucking beautiful. Truly awe-inspiring. To me, all the more so because I think most people know.

[mistermack]

I've never found Woody Allen funny or witty. But plenty of people do. I think he's one of those that appeals to suggestible people. They are told he's brilliant, and jump on the bandwagon.
It's like a lot of modern art, it relies on the herd instinct.
.

[colubridae]

I like his asides. Like Bob Hope's.

When chased by a giant boob "where are you going?"

Allen "I'm going to get my catcher's mit. We're all boys in my family"

[orpheus]

I've never found Woody Allen funny or witty. But plenty of people do. I think he's one of those that appeals to suggestible people. They are told he's brilliant, and jump on the bandwagon.
It's like a lot of modern art, it relies on the herd instinct.
.

That's a rather sweeping statement. I love a lot of modern art. And there's a lot I don't like at all. I like a lot of Allen's films. Others I don't like. My opinions have nothing to do with the reputation of the artist. And certainly nothing whatsoever to do with herd instinct.

If I wanted to be really naughty, I'd point out that I've heard your comment (or words to that effect) from many, many people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder about this, and who jump on their own bandwagon allowing them to feel superior to those who may thoughtfully and genuinely like modern art (or modern music, literature, or, in this case, Woody Allen).

[mistermack]

That's a rather sweeping statement. I love a lot of modern art. And there's a lot I don't like at all. I like a lot of Allen's films. Others I don't like. My opinions have nothing to do with the reputation of the artist. And certainly nothing whatsoever to do with herd instinct.

If I wanted to be really naughty, I'd point out that I've heard your comment (or words to that effect) from many, many people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder about this, and who jump on their own bandwagon allowing them to feel superior to those who may thoughtfully and genuinely like modern art (or modern music, literature, or, in this case, Woody Allen).

I don't think you're reacting to what I wrote, but what you think I meant.
I wrote "I think he's one of those that appeals to suggestible people."
I didn't write that you have to be suggestible to like his stuff.
When it comes to modern art, it's obvious that suggestion plays a huge role in it's appreciation. It's just so constant and drip-drip that you don't notice it happening, you just experience the result.
Get "Doctor Who" to take some modern art back to the seventeenth century, and show it to the 'art experts'.
They would die laughing. Even Van Gough's work was considered rubbish, till someone claimed it was genius. Then everyone else jumped onto the bandwagon.
Even the greatest expert ever on the work of Van Gough often declared that it was worthless.
But suddenly we are all convinced it's genius. Suggestion or what?
.

[hiyymer]

I am a fan of his movies generally speaking. He has a new one out called ' You Will Meet A Tall Dark Stranger'...his obsession with death etc..

"One must have one's delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and too clearly life does become unbearable because it's a pretty grim enterprise," Allen says.

"This is my prospective and has always been my prospective on life - I have a very grim, pessimistic view of it.

"I do feel that it is a grim, painful, nightmarish, meaningless experience and that the only way that you can be happy is if you tell yourself some lies and deceive yourself."

Do you agree?

Not really. I like Woody Allen. I went to see "whatever works" last year and rolled on the floor. Hilarious. But he is a way-over-the-top intellectual. Life is a great ride. Sometimes thinking too much spoils it.