GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Predictions

[Svartalf]

He's an American citizen by Right of Blood, he doesn't need to have been born on Merkin soil.

[Forty Two]

If he was clearly ineligible, then you'd think he'd save his money and time. There's been enough doubt cast in this thread alone.

If "natural born" means anything, then he's not eligible.

When he was born, he was a Canadian citizen at birth and subject to the the jurisdiction of and owing allegiance to Canada. He was born in Canada and only had one American citizen parent.

If, indeed, being born overseas and having an American mom was all that was required, then what in the world was the argument against Obama? The main issue was "where is his birth certificate" and "he wasn't really born in Hawaii." So what? His mom was an American citizen, so if he was born in Kenya or Indonesia, it would make no difference. (I am not a birther - I believe he was born in Hawaii, because his birth certificate records are there, the hospital has a record of him being born there, and there is a birth announcement in the local newspaper AT THE TIME saying he was born there. That's plenty. Obama was born in the US and had a US citizen mom).

The issue in the past has even been whether a person born in the US to only one US citizen parent was a natural born citizen. The argument goes that you need two American citizen parents. I don't think that argument is very strong, but it's out there and was made in the past.

There was a challenge made to John McCain's eligibility, as he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. But, the thing there is that the soil he was born on was arguably US soil at the time - like being born in an Embassy or on an American military base. You're born in a place where you don't get citizenship of another country, and you are born with allegiance to the United States on what is legally US soil, and you have at least one parent that is American.

A person born outside the US, as a matter of law, does not automatically get US citizenship by having one US citizen parent. That's the thing people are saying about Cruz which is inarguably wrong on the law. In addition to a US citizen parent, one needs to show that the parent or parents meet strictly defined requirements regarding age and time of residence in the United States. The Unites States is actually much more generous than most countries in according citizenship (but, citizenship is not the same as "natural born citizenship").

Under the nationality law in effect at the time of Ted Cruz's birth in Canada in December 1970 (the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, as amended, part of Title 8 of the U.S. Code), in order for Ted Cruz's mother to automatically confer citizenship on him at birth, these requirements need to have been met:

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:
The person's parents were married at the time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

Cruz hasn't disclosed anything about that. So maybe he was a U.S. citizen at birth. Or maybe not. WE DON'T AND CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW at this point.

So, we do not know if he even was a "citizen" at birth, let alone a natural born citizen. There is room to debate what "natural born citizen" means, but it's hard to imagine that any definition of that term wouldn't include "citizen at birth." If Cruz was NOT a citizen at birth, then how could he possibly be considered a natural born citizen?

There has also been some horseshit floated that Cruz "renounced" his Canadian citizenship. I don't think that's true at all. Canada has a complicated system for renouncing citizenship involving a form and fee and he would have had to wait for an adjudication on the issue. You can't just declare it, like Michael Scott on the American version of The Office "Declaring" bankruptcy by saying "I declare bankruptcy!"

Obama was certainly a natural born citizen, since he was born in Hawaii, a U.S. state; but if he had been born outside the United States, he would NOT have been a U.S. citizen at birth, because his mother was just a few months too young, under the legalistic rules set forth above.

[Forty Two]

Also, Ted Cruz's parents both applied for and received Canadian citizenship before he was born. So, technically, Cruz was born in Canada to two Canadian citizen parents.

If that's "natural born citizen" then the term means nothing.

[Tero]

There was no dual citizenship with Canada in 1970. However, the birth certificate in fact is not a citizenship document. It just proves a live birth. When you apply for a US or Canadian soc sec number, that only proves residency.

[Forty Two]

There was no dual citizenship with Canada in 1970. However, the birth certificate in fact is not a citizenship document. It just proves a live birth. When you apply for a US or Canadian soc sec number, that only proves residency.

Yes, and live birth in Canada to Canadian Citizen parents means the kid is a Canadian citizen. In general, everyone born in Canada from 1947 or later acquires Canadian citizenship at birth. In one 2008 case, a girl born to a Ugandan mother aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Boston was deemed a Canadian citizen for customs purposes because she was born over Canada's airspace. The only exceptions concern children born to diplomats, where additional requirements apply.

I am curious if Cruz was issued a Canadian Citizenship Card as a kid. Many people were.

I'd like to see someone release Cruz's Canadian citizenship records beyond the birth certificate.

[JimC]

I wonder if the anti-Obama birthers are frothing at the mouth over Cruz...

[pErvinalia]

Lol. Trump got booed at the last debate for bringing up the lies about WMDs in Iraq.

Yeah, attacking GW at a republican debate isn't a good idea. I reckon it's only a matter of time before his poll results plummet. He could actually win this if he showed some small level of nuance.

[pErvinalia]

If, indeed, being born overseas and having an American mom was all that was required, then what in the world was the argument against Obama? The main issue was "where is his birth certificate" and "he wasn't really born in Hawaii." So what? His mom was an American citizen, so if he was born in Kenya or Indonesia, it would make no difference. (I am not a birther - I believe he was born in Hawaii, because his birth certificate records are there, the hospital has a record of him being born there, and there is a birth announcement in the local newspaper AT THE TIME saying he was born there.

Marxist conspiracy. The Soviets did that as they knew he would one day be president under their specialist guiding.

[pErvinalia]

Lol. Trump got booed at the last debate for bringing up the lies about WMDs in Iraq.

Yeah, attacking GW at a republican debate isn't a good idea. I reckon it's only a matter of time before his poll results plummet. He could actually win this if he showed some small level of nuance.

He's now attacked Rubio for excessive sweating. I reckon the beginning of the end can't be too far away.

[Animavore]

Check out jebbush . com for epic trolling.

[Animavore]

Ted Cruz’s climate science denial howlers.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/checkin ... wlers.html

[Forty Two]

I wonder if the anti-Obama birthers are frothing at the mouth over Cruz...

To be consistent, I think they should oppose Cruz's eligibility. It's not even a birther issue, though, as his place of birth is not in dispute. He was definitely born in Canada, to two Canadian citizen parents. I have no idea how in the heck he can claim American citizenship based on that. His mom was born in the US, but she took Canadian citizenship before Cruz was born. Even if she was still a US citizen, Cruz would have to meet statutory requirements in order to even have been entitled to citizenship from birth, and Cruz has never come forward with any information that he meets the definition under the statute. But, even then, he has to be not just a citizen from birth, but a "natural born" citizen.

[Forty Two]

Lol. Trump got booed at the last debate for bringing up the lies about WMDs in Iraq.

Yeah, attacking GW at a republican debate isn't a good idea. I reckon it's only a matter of time before his poll results plummet. He could actually win this if he showed some small level of nuance.

Well, I have to say, I find it refreshing that he isn't holding back his opinion on a topic when most everyone would see an advantage to him if he did hold back. We're so used to politicians views tacking this way and that -- move left for this audience, move right for that audience -- it actually seems bizarre for a politician to just say what his views are without constantly massaging his views.

[Forty Two]

Lol. Trump got booed at the last debate for bringing up the lies about WMDs in Iraq.

Yeah, attacking GW at a republican debate isn't a good idea. I reckon it's only a matter of time before his poll results plummet. He could actually win this if he showed some small level of nuance.

He's now attacked Rubio for excessive sweating. I reckon the beginning of the end can't be too far away.

If Trump wins in South Carolina, it will be difficult for him to be beaten from here on out. If Trump loses in S.C., I think you are right and his support will start to teeter.

[pErvinalia]

I didn't watch it, but an interview is doing the rounds showing trump actually supporting the invasion of Iraq.