The Illusion of the Self

[Svartalf]

Granted, if only to save you the cost of a Seoul-Paris

[FBM]

Thank you.

[amused]

... As far as other animals, at least those with a reasonably developed central nervous system, I suspect their is something acting as a central decision-maker; the difference would be that they can't reflect on it, or attempt to analyse it, they just are it...

That was in response to a comment Rum made, but I wanted to use it as a point of departure.

Why wouldn't humans, being an animal, be any different from any other animal in that we simply are what we are? Why would we not simply be a physical entity with physical processes that play out according to the laws of physics in this universe? I don't inhabit my body, I AM my body, which includes a brain. If the interpretation of reality is an illusion, so what? It's a persistent illusion that can't be modified except through physical force, so it's as good as real.

[FBM]

Every time you try to pinpoint that "central decision-maker" JimC alluded to, you face at least a handful of parts. Keep chasing long enough and you're down there with the physicists looking for the Higgs boson and other elementary stuff. Physicists aren't content with the everyday conventions that we live by, no matter how useful they are. They want to get down to the nitty gritty and figure out how things are as they really are. That's really the motivation behind this inquiry. "as good as real" just doesn't cut it for the inquiring mind.

[charlou]

ah, the inquiring mind

... epistemology .. inductivism ... science .. doubt and skepticism ... cogito ergo sum ... plato's cave ...

"as good as real" is as good as it gets for the inquiring mind

[FBM]

So we may as well stick with 'goddidit' and damn the details.

[Svartalf]

actually, we just paint a big Mystery Tour sign over it and leave it at that.

[charlou]

hmmm, your drawing that from what I've posted ...

Hardly, and quite the contrary ... Thinking our inquiring minds can ever attain absolute knowledge is where dogmatic belief lies.

[FBM]

hmmm, your drawing that from what I've posted ...

Hardly, and quite the contrary ... Thinking our inquiring minds can ever attain absolute knowledge is where dogmatic belief lies.

If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

[charlou]

I've read and participated in the thread. Some of my participation was moved, but most of it is in this thread.

[charlou]

If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

Pretty ambivalent either way on this atm, so just curious .. why shatter that illusion?

[amused]

... If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

"We are each an individual snowflake.... just like everybody else."

I accept that I'm an animal that operates according to physical processes that are largely the same in everybody else. The primary difference is the set of memories that I carry.

[FBM]

If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

Pretty ambivalent either way on this atm, so just curious .. why shatter that illusion?

If you're satisfied with illusion, don't bother with it.

... If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

"We are each an individual snowflake.... just like everybody else."

I accept that I'm an animal that operates according to physical processes that are largely the same in everybody else. The primary difference is the set of memories that I carry.

The conventional definition of a Self is one who is identical from birth to death. Memories accumulate, fade, get distorted, some are fictions, etc. I can't see how Self = memories. Not that that's what you're claiming, just that it's a common refuge for a lot of people when confronted with this dilemma.

[charlou]

I accept that I'm an animal that operates according to physical processes that are largely the same in everybody else. The primary difference is the set of memories that I carry.

ayep

"I AM my body" works ... but aren't I also my environment?

And yet isn't it also possible for me to behave autonomously, even uniquely (creatively, ethically) given some thought?

Intriguing stuff ..

[charlou]

If you read the thread, you'll see that it's about shattering the illusion of absolute knowledge about individual identity.

Pretty ambivalent either way on this atm, so just curious .. why shatter that illusion?

If you're satisfied with illusion, don't bother with it.

That's not a helpful response to my question. I am rather interested in the why, actually.