Re: Metaphysics as an Error

[charlou]

Personally, I'd like us to consider having a discussion area where members who want to can have heated exchanges without interference ... all those involved would consent to this by the act of participation in that area.

The Cage. Two Ratz enter; one Ratz leaves. :twisted:

I love this idea.

AB has raised it here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 37&start=0

[SpeedOfSound]

I think the whole thing was my fault and I should have taken the suspension. I baited the conversation The Serpent just responded. I'm sure the mods are busy and have a problem with context and understanding the flavor of the discussion threads.

I think the original issue of plagiarism was take far too lightly. Sorry LI, but for me it is a sin of great proportions. In light of that it is a little much to ask the accuser to swallow his pride when he was the one that got suspended seemingly for not shutting his mouth about the issue. If playing nice means I can't point out obvious intellectual dishonesty then I be gone too.

Cooling the thread down killed the thread. No one's fault really. Just lots of misunderstandings.

[GrahamH]

[FedUpWithFaith]

Personally, I'd like us to consider having a discussion area where members who want to can have heated exchanges without interference ... all those involved would consent to this by the act of participation in that area.

If the topic had derailed to LI being a plagarist, then the derail should have been separated out. However, these guys have a legitatimate beef with each other and in the Serpent's case, he had a potentially justifiable argument. It was not simply name calling, there were real principles at stake for both parties and when there is the issue of personal wrongdoing, it is very hard or impossible to separate that from a personal attack. I had hoped Rationalia would not fall victim to this type of over-policing. I think the mods should have separated it out into a separate discussion and let it go on.

[FedUpWithFaith]

Note; this is genuinly intended to be on the topic of CdSG leaving, not the recent conflict between us, if mods think its not suitable in light of my recent warning, then sorry about that, and see you in 24 hrs

CdSG was making a big deal over his alegations, because thats his nature; he is well known for his combative nature and openly said so himself in many different threads. He is also well known for his egoism and pride. He's a smart kid, and given a few more years experience and a few inter-personal skills, he will turn out to be a force to be reckoned with in any debate and a great philosopher. He felt his personal attacks were justified, and blustered that he would quit if he was warned by the mods (words to that effect). When he was warned (as was I) he had to face the situation of his own making; he'd said he would leave, and risked a blow to the ego if he backed down.

Gotta admit, it would be worth a 24 hour ban to crack a joke or two at his expense <just to help put out the fires of egoism, honest>

IMO the mods have handled the events with patience and restraint.

I agree with you about CdSG and your response is a mature one.. I've always had the impression he was a spoiled trust fund kid. Alternatively, like me, he might have a different persona in real life. It's not clear. In any case, he's a brilliant lad and I tend to meet people on their terms, not force them to mine. When you engage the serpent you know what you're gonna get. You gotta take the bad with the good or let the snake lie.

Personally, I'd like us to consider having a discussion area where members who want to can have heated exchanges without interference ... all those involved would consent to this by the act of participation in that area.

An invitation to take a thread into 'the zone' would be a bit like an invitation to meet a student after school by the bike sheds 'for a chat' .... If you go along, you know what to expect

Well ID there is not only nothing forcing you to enter that thread but also nothing that would have prevented you from disengaging from CdSG in the original thread. You simply could have said you refused to further dignify his accusations with a response and ignored him. The dispute would have died out. If you want to "choose" to keep up your side of the fight you are perfectly justified to do so, but don't drop the responsibility all on the Serpent.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I think the whole thing was my fault and I should have taken the suspension. I baited the conversation The Serpent just responded. I'm sure the mods are busy and have a problem with context and understanding the flavor of the discussion threads.

I think the original issue of plagiarism was take far too lightly. Sorry LI, but for me it is a sin of great proportions. In light of that it is a little much to ask the accuser to swallow his pride when he was the one that got suspended seemingly for not shutting his mouth about the issue. If playing nice means I can't point out obvious intellectual dishonesty then I be gone too.

Cooling the thread down killed the thread. No one's fault really. Just lots of misunderstandings.

To be honest, there were several posters in that thread that could have been suspended just as easily. Comte was by no means the worst, his timing just sucked.

Nobody on the staff had an issue with the plagiarism being pointed out. What we had an issue with was the way in which it was pointed out in almost every post! It is in the thread, on record, it does not need to be repeated at regular intervals. Doing so serves no purpose other than to antagonize LI and to provoke him into exactly the kind of behaviour that nearly led to his suspension along with Comte. Pretty much everyone in the thread was equally guilty of perpetuating the argument to the detriment of any sensible discussion of the OT.

Somebody start a new thread, everybody keep it civil and on topic, and please just draw a line under this.



BTW, I love the way you went from "I think the whole thing was my fault" to "No one's fault really" in 3 short paragraphs! That took some philosophising!

[FedUpWithFaith]

I don't like the idea of a "special" bear pit unless its the only way that a no-holds bar discussion of grievances can be handled. It totally strips a discussion of its context. I'd prefer simply splitting off derails like we do now. If the derail is a fight so be it. Treat it like any other derail. If you want to put a warning label on the front to tell people it's a nasty thread OK, but it would be apparent soon enough from reading the first few posts. I also don't like the idea of a bear pit for only two people as some jokingly (?) suggest. Others, like SoS have a dog in this fight too.

[SpeedOfSound]

I think the whole thing was my fault and I should have taken the suspension. I baited the conversation The Serpent just responded. I'm sure the mods are busy and have a problem with context and understanding the flavor of the discussion threads.

I think the original issue of plagiarism was take far too lightly. Sorry LI, but for me it is a sin of great proportions. In light of that it is a little much to ask the accuser to swallow his pride when he was the one that got suspended seemingly for not shutting his mouth about the issue. If playing nice means I can't point out obvious intellectual dishonesty then I be gone too.

Cooling the thread down killed the thread. No one's fault really. Just lots of misunderstandings.

To be honest, there were several posters in that thread that could have been suspended just as easily. Comte was by no means the worst, his timing just sucked.

Nobody on the staff had an issue with the plagiarism being pointed out. What we had an issue with was the way in which it was pointed out in almost every post! It is in the thread, on record, it does not need to be repeated at regular intervals. Doing so serves no purpose other than to antagonize LI and to provoke him into exactly the kind of behaviour that nearly led to his suspension along with Comte. Pretty much everyone in the thread was equally guilty of perpetuating the argument to the detriment of any sensible discussion of the OT.

Somebody start a new thread, everybody keep it civil and on topic, and please just draw a line under this.




BTW, I love the way you went from "I think the whole thing was my fault" to "No one's fault really" in 3 short paragraphs! That took some philosophising!

Ahh shit. I should have said no one's fault but mine. I'm the one that originally caught the plagiarism too. Everything is MY fault.

I'm too lazy to start a new thread.

[FedUpWithFaith]

I think the whole thing was my fault and I should have taken the suspension. I baited the conversation The Serpent just responded. I'm sure the mods are busy and have a problem with context and understanding the flavor of the discussion threads.

I think the original issue of plagiarism was take far too lightly. Sorry LI, but for me it is a sin of great proportions. In light of that it is a little much to ask the accuser to swallow his pride when he was the one that got suspended seemingly for not shutting his mouth about the issue. If playing nice means I can't point out obvious intellectual dishonesty then I be gone too.

Cooling the thread down killed the thread. No one's fault really. Just lots of misunderstandings.

To be honest, there were several posters in that thread that could have been suspended just as easily. Comte was by no means the worst, his timing just sucked.

Then lift the suspension right now. This is silly.

Nobody on the staff had an issue with the plagiarism being pointed out. What we had an issue with was the way in which it was pointed out in almost every post! It is in the thread, on record, it does not need to be repeated at regular intervals. Doing so serves no purpose other than to antagonize LI and to provoke him into exactly the kind of behaviour that nearly led to his suspension along with Comte. Pretty much everyone in the thread was equally guilty of perpetuating the argument to the detriment of any sensible discussion of the OT.

Somebody start a new thread, everybody keep it civil and on topic, and please just draw a line under this.

Oh Christ, here we go again. Sometimes people antagonize and get antagonized in real life. Sometimes it's hard to separate the issue from the person. Sometimes arguments get heated. So what? We don't need you mod nannies to sort it all out for us all the time. Split out the derail and let them fight it out for ten years if they want to. I see no threat of this somehow infecting the entire forum. You can contain it without stopping it. Management should err on the side of free speech, not censorship.

[charlou]

Personally, I'd like us to consider having a discussion area where members who want to can have heated exchanges without interference ... all those involved would consent to this by the act of participation in that area.

If the topic had derailed to LI being a plagarist, then the derail should have been separated out. However, these guys have a legitatimate beef with each other and in the Serpent's case, he had a potentially justifiable argument. It was not simply name calling, there were real principles at stake for both parties and when there is the issue of personal wrongdoing, it is very hard or impossible to separate that from a personal attack. I had hoped Rationalia would not fall victim to this type of over-policing. I think the mods should have separated it out into a separate discussion and let it go on.

On reflection, I agree with you.

[jamest]

Then lift the suspension right now. This is silly.

He's no longer suspended - that was just for 24 hours. The issue is that he's choosing to leave. A matter of principle, for him.

[SpeedOfSound]

Then lift the suspension right now. This is silly.

He's no longer suspended - that was just for 24 hours. The issue is that he's choosing to leave. A matter of principle, for him.

Start a new thread so you can answer my treeness questions.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Then lift the suspension right now. This is silly.

The suspension is long over.

Comte started this thread since then.

[jamest]

Then lift the suspension right now. This is silly.

He's no longer suspended - that was just for 24 hours. The issue is that he's choosing to leave. A matter of principle, for him.

Start a new thread so you can answer my treeness questions.

Yes, we'll pick up the conversation at some time. Not yet though. Gotta work shortly & just generally busy. Keep your trees in mind till next time - I'll get round to pruning them then.

[FBM]

While I support the 24-hr suspension (not because CdSG said anything worse than anyone else; it's the timing thing), I also agree that I should have suggested splitting the derail instead of temporarily locking the thread. I responded the way I did because a) I've only been a mod for a short time, and it simply didn't occur to me to split the thread, b) I received several PMs from participants in the thread within a short time with legitimate complaints about certain other participants, c) I didn't see any other mods online at the time to ask advice from (I didn't see Mai until it was too late).

In retrospect, spitting the posts into a derail thread would have been very tricky, as on-topic comments were mixed in the same posts as derail comments. It was something like 2 or 3 a.m. here at the time, and I simply couldn't have handled it. What can I say, I have a job. If it had occurred to me or Mai (who didn't know the content of the PMs to me) to split the thread instead of temporarily locking it, I could have asked her to do it.

Bottom line, I did my best with what I had at the time. Sorry if it wasn't up to snuff. I learned something valuable from it, but I hope I didn't do too much damage in the process. I offer my apologies to anyone who was unnecessarily troubled by my actions.