Is Islam inherently homophobic?

[pErvinalia]

No it doesn't. Words have meaning.

[Hermit]

It's very difficult to have a discussion about islamophobia when there is no agreement on what the word means. If it is taken to be a fear of Muslims, I tend to think it is misguided. Most Muslims are not murderous terrorists or even sympathisers of terrorism. There simply are no grounds on fearing them. If it is to be taken to be a fear of Islam as represented by the Qur'an and the Hadith, fearing it is partially justified, but then, so is the Bible, and particularly so, Deutoronomy.

Islamophobics remind me of the rants of some fundamentalist Christians like Pastor Jiminez and Pastor Anderson when they advocate the killing of all homosexuals.

“People say, like: ‘Well, aren’t you sad that 50 sodomites died?’ ” Jimenez said, referencing the initial death toll in Orlando, which authorities later clarified included 49 victims plus the gunman. “Here’s the problem with that. It’s like the equivalent of asking me — what if you asked me: ​’Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?’

“Um, no, I think that’s great. I think that helps society. You know, I think Orlando, Fla., is a little safer tonight.”

He added: “The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die. The tragedy is — I’m kind of upset that he didn’t finish the job!”

Link

[Brian Peacock]

Technically, the suffixes "phobe" (for an individual) or "phobia" (for a condition) simply imply fear. However, many uses of the word have an additional implication that the fear is somewhat exaggerated. For example, an arachnophobe may well be paralysed with fear at the sight of a small, harmless spider some distance away, as opposed to a certain amount of rational fear most people would have at the sight of a Sydney funnel web with fangs raised in close proximity...

In the same way, perhaps islamophobia could be described an exaggerated fear, in that one fears or dislikes virtually every aspect of islam, and all muslims, whereas a specific fear or dislike of armed Islamic jihadists is perfectly rational.

"Fear" and "dislike" are two distinct and entirely separate emotions and one need not be the companion to the other. One can dislike something without fearing it at all.

Moreover, "exaggerated" ("out of proportion" technically) fear is a diagnostic sign of a phobia, whereas "dislike" is not:

The DSM-5 criteria for a specific phobia are:...

Engaging in equivocations on, or reifications of, 'phobia' is a great way to avoid the issue and divorce particular terminology from the context of its usage, and the problem you're having here is trying to make a case that it represents a certain and particular thing, and only that thing - in the case of your reply above, a mental health diagnosis (and in subsequent replies something else no doubt).

Gelotophobia is a fear of being laughed at, a form of social anxiety which can be quite severe, and while many of us dislike being laughed at in public--and so we might say that we're 'a bit of a gelotophobe' in certain circumstances--a gelotophobe will not only find this and any laughter distressing but they will also display the classic symptoms of morbid fear that we are all aware of. That is 'phobia' as a DSM-like diagnostic categorisation, and though some may say that it is indeed fortunate that you are not encumbered by this distressing affliction, it is not all a 'phobia' can be or is.

I don't think I really have to state what 'phobia' encompasses or what it represents in terms of 'Islamophobia' or 'homophobia', that is; what 'phobia' means in these contexts or how it is used, because I know you are not ignorant of these meanings or those contexts, but because you make the case that it does, should, and must mean only one thing I provide the following exposition merely for completeness and balance.

'Photophobia' offers a comparable example, as it is generally understood not as a morbid fear of sunlight but a categorisation of an aversion or sensitivity to light. That said, it may also represent a pathological or morbid fear of sunlight (vampires?), or a DSM-like diagnosis (people who think they're vampires?), or be applied in relation to a manifest symptom of an underlying medical condition (optic neuritis, infection of the trigeminal nerve?). Photophobia in humans can be a transitory or pernicious state: the symptomatic photophobia that accompanies a hangover (particular one of heroic proportions) is transitory where as the photophobia which comes with some forms of porphyria and results in skin blistering on even mild exposure to sunlight can last a life-time. All these are legitimate or appropriate uses of the term 'photophbia'. The context of the use of the term therefore plays a part in identifying its meaning, from a mild aversion, to dislike, to fear, to even hatred. The apparent 'rationality', or otherwise, of such aversions, dislikes, fears, or hatreds does not de/legitimise the use or meaning of the term - that is just something which requires proper contextualisation.

Appeals to the dictionary may be necessary if a term is being used erroneously, mistakenly, or out of context, but dictionary entries merely reflect current word meaning and usage and do not determine or authorise that meaning and usage.

As Hermit notes, 'Islamophobia' is a problematic term because of its apparent ambiguity. Chiefly it's employed as a charge by Islamicists against those who criticise some aspect of Islam or the behaviour, attitudes, or claims and assertions of some Muslims. In this sense it is part of the rhetorical ordinance of political discourse and as such can be, and is, deployed by both sides of the divide to bolster their views and further their causes. But the ambiguity arises for all the same reasons that 'photophobic' may appear ambiguous when divorced from the context of its usage. Of course, the difference between 'photophobia' and terms like 'Islamophobia' and 'Homophobia' is that existence of a 'phobic' reaction to sunlight plays no part in discourse which advocates or opposes justifications that challenge, criticise, denigrate, seeks to limit the activity or rights of, or calls for the destruction of the Sun. As I said to Tyrannical in the Catholic homophobia thread...

Yeah, the term can be contextually problematic when looked at like that - but we all know what it means, so your point is....?

[pErvinalia]

I think it's safe to say that Seth isn't gelotophobic...

[Svartalf]

uh, what do you mean there? never heard that word.

[pErvinalia]

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 5#p1665275

[Svartalf]

If I admit to being misislamic, does it mean my hatred of islam is exaggerated and irrational?

[Brian Peacock]

Here's the finalists in last years Miss Islamic beauty pageant.






I'll get my coat.

[Hermit]

Mohammad takes a family pic.

[pErvinalia]

Here's the finalists in last years Miss Islamic beauty pageant.






I'll get my coat.

[Seth]

There is no mention of homophobia anywhere there. Can you even read?

Mendacious pettifoggery. The modifier "phobia" controls the definition of "homophobia" as you well know. You're just trolling.

[Seth]

True, but in the case of most people who could be described as islamophobic or homophobic, dislike would be present as well. In fact, dislike (or even outright hatred) might well be the dominant emotion for people given those labels. In contrast, fears that are not political, shall we say, like the arachnophobia I mentioned, would probably not be accompanied by dislike.

What this means is that those 2 terms are not really equivalent to the well-documented other types of phobias...

Of course they are. Dislike is obviously a subtext of out-of-proportion fear because one natural dislikes that which is frightening. However, it doesn't go the other way, necessarily. That one dislikes something is not indicative of an out of proportion fear of that thing. One can dislike spiders without being phobic about them, just as one can dislike gays or Muslims without being phobic about them.

The terms "homophobia" and "Islamophobia" are both mendacious coinage perpetuated specifically by those who wish to marginalize and demean anyone who demonstrates dislike, or who simply refuse to openly approve of the affected groups. It's a lexicological political propaganda ploy and only that. End of story.

[rasetsu]

There is no mention of homophobia anywhere there. Can you even read?

Mendacious pettifoggery. The modifier "phobia" controls the definition of "homophobia" as you well know. You're just trolling.

And you're engaged in the genetic fallacy as it has to do with the word's meaning. 'Phobia' isn't a modifier. English is not an agglutinitive language; combinations of words create new words, not conglomerates of their roots.

[Forty Two]

In other words, there are multiple usages.

If a person has arachnophobia, it's not a mere dislike or contempt for spiders, it entails a sort of visceral fear, dread, loathing and/or anxiety at the mere sight of them. There are such phobias involve lots of innocuous things. Fear of heights. Fear of flying. Fear of enclosed spaces. Fear of open spaces. Fear of fish. Fear of holes. There are almost as many psychiatric conditions considered phobias as there are things.

However, in common usage, homophobia and Islamophobia don't refer to clinical conditions where one shudders in visceral fear or anxiety when a homosexual or Muslim is present. That CAN be a clinical diagnosis, but in common parlance, what is meant is just that someone is biased, prejudiced or racist-ish in relation to individuals in these groups. It's about not liking or discriminating against, or holding contempt for Islam, Muslims, homosexuality or homosexuals.

The argument regarding the common usage of the terms is really about the line around criticism of ideas and behaviors vs. bigotry or hatred of people. When I say that the major forms of Islam of which I'm aware are stupid, ridiculous, false, contemptible, and silly, I am not Islamophobic, in my view, although in some twisted freaks' views I am very much Islamophobic by saying that. I distinguish between ridicule of ideas and religions, and ridicule of people in terms of their inherent or genetic qualities.

Where I think people go to far with this phobia stuff is applying the term Islamophobia to criticism of the ideas in Islam or aspects of Islamic culture. We don't seem to mind criticizing western cultures and such, so I have no idea why it's "phobic" to be critical of Islam or Islamic culture.

Islam sucks. So what? I'm sure some Muslims think Christianity or Atheism suck. Are they "phobic?" On second thought, I shouldn't even go there, because I already know the answer -- no, of course they are not phobic because they are an oppressed and marginalized group so they can say what they want about the dominant group. It's not the same as whitey says it.....

[Brian Peacock]

In other words, there are multiple usages.

If a person has arachnophobia, it's not a mere dislike or contempt for spiders, it entails a sort of visceral fear, dread, loathing and/or anxiety at the mere sight of them. There are such phobias involve lots of innocuous things. Fear of heights. Fear of flying. Fear of enclosed spaces. Fear of open spaces. Fear of fish. Fear of holes. There are almost as many psychiatric conditions considered phobias as there are things.

However, in common usage, homophobia and Islamophobia don't refer to clinical conditions where one shudders in visceral fear or anxiety when a homosexual or Muslim is present. That CAN be a clinical diagnosis, but in common parlance, what is meant is just that someone is biased, prejudiced or racist-ish in relation to individuals in these groups. It's about not liking or discriminating against, or holding contempt for Islam, Muslims, homosexuality or homosexuals.

The argument regarding the common usage of the terms is really about the line around criticism of ideas and behaviors vs. bigotry or hatred of people. When I say that the major forms of Islam of which I'm aware are stupid, ridiculous, false, contemptible, and silly, I am not Islamophobic, in my view, although in some twisted freaks' views I am very much Islamophobic by saying that. I distinguish between ridicule of ideas and religions, and ridicule of people in terms of their inherent or genetic qualities.

Where I think people go to far with this phobia stuff is applying the term Islamophobia to criticism of the ideas in Islam or aspects of Islamic culture. We don't seem to mind criticizing western cultures and such, so I have no idea why it's "phobic" to be critical of Islam or Islamic culture.

Islam sucks. So what? I'm sure some Muslims think Christianity or Atheism suck. Are they "phobic?" On second thought, I shouldn't even go there, because I already know the answer -- no, of course they are not phobic because they are an oppressed and marginalized group so they can say what they want about the dominant group. It's not the same as whitey says it.....

Indeed. But you're too quick to poison the well of your own argument there.

'Homophobia' carries connotations of prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, and hypocrisy, and while many people may embody those attitudes towards Muslims 'Islamophobia' still seems to mainly deployed as a charge against criticism, a signifier of intensified offence, and, in effect, an attempt to close-down discussion and/or criticism. Your OP highlights the inherent silliness of this, but when people say things like all Muslims should be rounded up into camps or that male children of Muslim parents should be anthraxed to prevent them becoming terrorists the label 'Islamophobe' seems increasingly apt.