Dropping birth and death rates

[Seth]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Well, I think that you'll find that Italy isn't all that Catholic anymore, and I'd bet you'd find that if you compare the birth rates for practicing Catholics and non-Catholics, you'll see where most of the procreating is going on.

[JimC]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Strict adherence to catholic doctrine has been purely a facade in Italy for a long time now...

Surface allegiance, non-compliance in practice.

[Seth]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Strict adherence to catholic doctrine has been purely a facade in Italy for a long time now...

Surface allegiance, non-compliance in practice.

True enough. I think the hotbed Catholicism these days is Africa and South America.

Then again that's between them and their God I would think...

[Blind groper]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

[JimC]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Strict adherence to catholic doctrine has been purely a facade in Italy for a long time now...

Surface allegiance, non-compliance in practice.

True enough. I think the hotbed Catholicism these days is Africa and South America.

Then again that's between them and their God I would think...

The % of those populations that adhere fully to catholic doctrine could be assessed by competent sociological surveys; it then becomes a datum point in analysing the effect of religions on phenomena such as birth rate, without necessarily being critical...

It would be interesting to do a similar analysis based on the % of a country that are committed to traditional islamic religious beliefs and practices...

[JimC]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

That can still be true while saying that fertility will be effected in the opposite direction by strict adherence to certain religious beliefs. The point both Seth and I were making is that Italy is not a good example of old-fashioned adherence to catholic teachings, at least about birth control...

[Seth]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

Of course it does. I wasn't disputing that.

[Brian Peacock]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Well, I think that you'll find that Italy isn't all that Catholic anymore, and I'd bet you'd find that if you compare the birth rates for practicing Catholics and non-Catholics, you'll see where most of the procreating is going on.

No true Cathlick et cetera blah-blah and so forth...

[Brian Peacock]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

Quite.

[cronus]

Like the long moderation this meaningless trend will end upon reaching some resource criticality, big plague, war or other variable big enough to knock the clown statistical off his tight rope venture on the graph paper.

[mistermack]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Except that Italians ain't so Catholic as they used to be. I wouldn't say that Italy is a state with strict religious adherence.

[Svartalf]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Check Spain, or Ireland, or Africa nad latin America...

[mistermack]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

Predominantly Catholic doesn't tell the whole story. That just means that they aren't predominantly anything else.
What you find in these countries is that the people who are ACTIVELY catholic are the old people, whereas the young ones, who are more likely to start a family, are not.

They might not identify with any other religion, but they are increasingly non-religious. And they certainly don't take any notice of church teaching on family planning.

[JimC]

There is a web site showing fertility in Catholic countries. Spain, France and Ireland are all predominantly Catholic and all have fertility rates below 2. It is obvious from a quick browse of the list, that fertility in Catholic countries follows exactly the same rule as for everyone else. It goes up with poverty.

Predominantly Catholic doesn't tell the whole story. That just means that they aren't predominantly anything else.
What you find in these countries is that the people who are ACTIVELY catholic are the old people, whereas the young ones, who are more likely to start a family, are not.

They might not identify with any other religion, but they are increasingly non-religious. And they certainly don't take any notice of church teaching on family planning.

That is overwhelmingly the case here, and I suspect it is true for the vast majority of catholics in western countries.

[DaveDodo007]

There is a very noticeable correlation between states with strict religious adherence and those with high birthrate

I doubt it. For example, in Catholic Italy, the centre of papist strength, the average fertility is 1.3.

Not in the West but it is true of everywhere else.

Source: Fucking 7 billion people.