Bullying

[MiM]

Did you read the article again? Probably not, so I'll do some of it for you.

The way the situation is described, and especially the line "He said I was gay. He said it lots." And my baby collapsed in tears in my arms. tells with no lack of clarity that the other kid did not just "express an opinion". That interpretation is a production of your imagination, probably because you want to take the part of the bully. If the other guy had only blurted out "oh that's gay" there wouldn't have been a problem.

And what exactly is your problem with talking to someone in the bathroom? You actually insinuated that the woman molested her child, just because she told that the bathroom was the only space in their home, where they could be alone? That was disgusting (what you said, not what she said). And then you brought up that issue again. Again, what is your problem with talking in a bathroom?

And why should it be anybody else's problem if a kid paints his nails. Remember these where very much play-age kids and kids like to play in many different ways "Wolverine was mentioned". There is nothing "not to like", in a very vocal way about that, unless you are out to bully someone.

And, she was not surprised that the kid got bullied per se. She did reflect about the difference when the older kid did not get bullied, and the younger did - a difference which actually is surprising.

And from the text in the end it gets very clear that mother is discussing these issues with her kids, in several ways. The one thing she will probably never say is "The bully is right and you are wrong". And I really would hope (in a futile way) nobody in this whole world would ever say that to a kid. Or write bashing posts about people who stands forth on this issue.

My heart sinks because I know this is not going to be our only conversation. This isn't going to be the last anti-gay slur my kids hear. We'll have to talk again about the people who don't like gay people and how wrong they are. We'll have to talk again about how to respond when people say hateful words. And these are conversations were are going to have over and over again with all three of our sons, whether or not they are LGBT. "

[rachelbean]

I don't mean gay as in homosexual. I mean gay as in gay And I can totally use the word this way and it's not hypocritical at all because I'm half gay myself so it's totally cool

The thing is you can say you don't mean it in that way, but that makes no difference. Kids both gay and straight grow up hearing gay as in insult. They know regardless of having anything to do with sexuality it means inferior, lame, less than, etc. They don't stop associating with those things once someone also uses it to mean homosexual, they just then understand that people people gay people to be those things. I know it's commonly used, and I think that's sad and hopefully eventually it won't be.

[Animavore]

Part of the thing with hearing words used as insults as a kid without understanding the meaning is that it can be difficult to associate the word with its meaning once it's revealed to you.
I grew up hearing the word "cunt" A LOT growing up. I knew it was something bad, worse than a "fucker" or a "bollox", but never really thought it had a meaning other than, "a highly despicable human being". When I found out one day, as a teen I think, that the word "cunt" meant vagina I failed to register it that day. I have never in my life used that word to refer to a vagina. I never will. To me calling a vagina a "cunt" is like calling it a despicable human being. The worst of the worst. Which doesn't even make sense to me.
I can see how a kid can grow up using the word "gay" and never once using it to refer to a homosexual.

[Seth]

I he had painted them black, would he still have been called "gay"?

I don't think anybody calls this guy gay....

Oh, I don't know, he looks pretty "butch" to me.

[Seth]

I'd tell the kid that only closet homosexuals afraid of their own sexual urges call other people "fags" and that if one is not gay, or if one is gay, one should ignore what other people say because their opinion is worthless and of no concern.

And I'd tell him if he's physically bullied to fight back with everything he has (preferably Krav Maga training) and kick the assailant's ass from here to Sunday to make sure he never dares touch anyone again, regardless of any consequences that jackass idiot "zero tolerance" socialist educators might have to say about it.

I'd also encourage him to come to the defense of some other person who is being bullied as well, and damn the consequences.

Only by fighting back against bullies are bullies prevented from continuing their anti-social criminal behavior.

In fact, my recommendation is that if a class observes a classmate being physically bullied, the ENTIRE CLASS should gang up and beat the crap out of the bully.

Bullies bully because people are afraid to stand up to them and kick their asses. Do that a couple of times and bullies quickly change their behavior.

We need way more of that and far less of this simpering, cowardly pacifist socialist "good little proletarian" bullshit in our schools.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I'd tell the kid that only closet homosexuals afraid of their own sexual urges call other people "fags" and that if one is not gay, or if one is gay, one should ignore what other people say because their opinion is worthless and of no concern.

And I'd tell him if he's physically bullied to fight back with everything he has (preferably Krav Maga training) and kick the assailant's ass from here to Sunday to make sure he never dares touch anyone again, regardless of any consequences that jackass idiot "zero tolerance" socialist educators might have to say about it.

I'd also encourage him to come to the defense of some other person who is being bullied as well, and damn the consequences.

Only by fighting back against bullies are bullies prevented from continuing their anti-social criminal behavior.

In fact, my recommendation is that if a class observes a classmate being physically bullied, the ENTIRE CLASS should gang up and beat the crap out of the bully.

Bullies bully because people are afraid to stand up to them and kick their asses. Do that a couple of times and bullies quickly change their behavior.

We need way more of that and far less of this simpering, cowardly pacifist socialist "good little proletarian" bullshit in our schools.

A summary for those that greyed out here: We need more ass kicking in schools. (Allegedly.)

[pErvinalia]

I'd tell the kid that only closet homosexuals afraid of their own sexual urges call other people "fags" and that if one is not gay, or if one is gay, one should ignore what other people say because their opinion is worthless and of no concern.

And I'd tell him if he's physically bullied to fight back with everything he has (preferably Krav Maga training) and kick the assailant's ass from here to Sunday to make sure he never dares touch anyone again, regardless of any consequences that jackass idiot "zero tolerance" socialist educators might have to say about it.

I'd also encourage him to come to the defense of some other person who is being bullied as well, and damn the consequences.

Only by fighting back against bullies are bullies prevented from continuing their anti-social criminal behavior.

In fact, my recommendation is that if a class observes a classmate being physically bullied, the ENTIRE CLASS should gang up and beat the crap out of the bully.

Bullies bully because people are afraid to stand up to them and kick their asses. Do that a couple of times and bullies quickly change their behavior.

We need way more of that and far less of this simpering, cowardly pacifist socialist "good little proletarian" bullshit in our schools.

I more or less agree with the sentiment here (if not as strongly as stated), but you've also got to remember that a lot of bullies are being bullied at home or elsewhere, hence why they become bullies themselves.

[tattuchu]

Did you read the article again? Probably not, so I'll do some of it for you.

I didn't have to read the article again. I read it once and I already knew what it said.

The way the situation is described, and especially the line "He said I was gay. He said it lots." And my baby collapsed in tears in my arms. tells with no lack of clarity that the other kid did not just "express an opinion". That interpretation is a production of your imagination, probably because you want to take the part of the bully. If the other guy had only blurted out "oh that's gay" there wouldn't have been a problem.

That interpretation is just one of many possibilities. We don't know exactly what was said or how it was said. I'm not taking the side of the bully. I'm just saying that, not having the benefit of witnessing the incident, and not having more information, it's difficult to say exactly what happened. Also, we have a little kid here who has had his feelings hurt. I'm sympathetic to him but, to a sensitive young child who's been upset by unkind remarks, "he said it lots" could mean two or three times. Who knows?

Personally I think it's very likely that the kid who was picking on him was being a total dickhead. But I consider bullying to be a pattern of abusive behavior (such as aggressive menacing and intimidation) perpetrated over an extended period of time. One unpleasant incident on one particular day does not necessarily rise to the level of bullying in my opinion. If we're going to label every instance of conflict as bullying, then the term quickly uses its meaning.
I also don't think the boy doing the teasing was in the right. He should be spoken to and explained how his comments were hurtful. To label him a bully, however, may be over-the-top. Do you really want to stigmatise him with a label like that? It's like calling a little boy who kisses a little girl a sex offender. It's an over-reaction, and it's going to cause more problems than it solves.
My point is not that the bully (if you want to call him that) was in the right, but simply that it's a behavior that one might expect given the circumstances. Don't want your kid to get teased? Don't send him to school with his nails painted. Simple. Kids should be taught that picking on other kids is not cool but they should also be taught that actions have consequences and that not everybody is going to embrace everything you do, not when it falls outside of the norm. Want to be an iconoclast? Want to blaze your own trail? Awesome. More power to you. Just do it with the understanding that you may meet some resistance.

And what exactly is your problem with talking to someone in the bathroom? You actually insinuated that the woman molested her child, just because she told that the bathroom was the only space in their home, where they could be alone? That was disgusting (what you said, not what she said). And then you brought up that issue again. Again, what is your problem with talking in a bathroom?

I mentioned it because it's fucking weird. And I mentioned it again because it's fucking weird. And I think she's mental. I don't know where you're getting the molesting thing. I neither said that nor implied it. I simply think it's very strange that the only place she can have a quiet conversation is in the bathroom on the toilet. What's wrong with his room or her room? But in particular it's the sitting-on-the-toilet thing I find especially bizarre. Toilets are for shitting and pissing, not for private talks. It just doesn't make sense to me. At all. And it makes me think she's really weird. And mental. It's not that she's talking to him in the bathroom. That's not what I take issue with. It's the sitting on the toilet while doing it. Now, if she'd said she was talking to him while giving him a bath, then that I would consider completely normal.

The one thing she will probably never say is "The bully is right and you are wrong".

And neither am I saying that.

Or write bashing posts about people who stands forth on this issue.

My issue is with the current climate of hysterical overreaction in labeling absolutely everything as bullying, and of weeping and wailing at the terrible injustice of it all whenever a kid gets his feelings hurt.

[tattuchu]

I he had painted them black, would he still have been called "gay"?

I don't think anybody calls this guy gay....

Oh, I don't know, he looks pretty "butch" to me.

Well I don't know what kind of guys you usually hook up with, but he looked pretty effeminate to me.

[Seth]

I'd tell the kid that only closet homosexuals afraid of their own sexual urges call other people "fags" and that if one is not gay, or if one is gay, one should ignore what other people say because their opinion is worthless and of no concern.

And I'd tell him if he's physically bullied to fight back with everything he has (preferably Krav Maga training) and kick the assailant's ass from here to Sunday to make sure he never dares touch anyone again, regardless of any consequences that jackass idiot "zero tolerance" socialist educators might have to say about it.

I'd also encourage him to come to the defense of some other person who is being bullied as well, and damn the consequences.

Only by fighting back against bullies are bullies prevented from continuing their anti-social criminal behavior.

In fact, my recommendation is that if a class observes a classmate being physically bullied, the ENTIRE CLASS should gang up and beat the crap out of the bully.

Bullies bully because people are afraid to stand up to them and kick their asses. Do that a couple of times and bullies quickly change their behavior.

We need way more of that and far less of this simpering, cowardly pacifist socialist "good little proletarian" bullshit in our schools.

I more or less agree with the sentiment here (if not as strongly as stated), but you've also got to remember that a lot of bullies are being bullied at home or elsewhere, hence why they become bullies themselves.

That's a different problem that needs to be addressed after the bully has had the shit beaten out of him by his peers as an expression of their disfavor of his atavistic and criminal behavior. Once he quits criminally attacking others, then he can go into therapy to fix whatever motivated him to do so. But the priority here is not sympathy for some poor little darling that decides to take his frustrations and rage out on someone else, it's to show him that such behavior is unacceptable under any circumstances and that the penalty for engaging in that sort of behavior is painful operant conditioning by his peers and the community. When he shows signs of surrender and remorse for his actions, then, and only then does the focus turn towards treating whatever mental problems he might have.

There's absolutely no reason to endure bullies with the notion that they are just poor abused kids themselves. They may be, but there's absolutely NO excuse for initiating violence on another because you can't control your emotions.

[MiM]

Naah, why leave it at beating the shit out of him, hell just come back angrier than ever

[MiM]

Tatt: Obviously we know nothing about that story. It might well be complete fiction. But I iterate that reading the narrative as "the other kid just stating his opinion" seems extremely lopsided to me. And that kind of reactions are all too frequent when people want to avoid standing up to abusive behavior.

As for the toilet. Is it impossible for you to fathom, that the family might live in a small (one or two room) flat? There might just not be any vacant normal rooms for "one on one" talks. I might have overreacted on you insinuating abuse, but your comment on "keeping her pants on" definitely invited that interpretation. People have different views and ways, but if you have a problem with someone using the toilet as a chair, while having a talk, that is definitely your problem, not theirs. Just as if you have a problem with men painting their nails, that is your problem, not theirs. Stop trying to push your problems on other people.

[pErvinalia]

I'd tell the kid that only closet homosexuals afraid of their own sexual urges call other people "fags" and that if one is not gay, or if one is gay, one should ignore what other people say because their opinion is worthless and of no concern.

And I'd tell him if he's physically bullied to fight back with everything he has (preferably Krav Maga training) and kick the assailant's ass from here to Sunday to make sure he never dares touch anyone again, regardless of any consequences that jackass idiot "zero tolerance" socialist educators might have to say about it.

I'd also encourage him to come to the defense of some other person who is being bullied as well, and damn the consequences.

Only by fighting back against bullies are bullies prevented from continuing their anti-social criminal behavior.

In fact, my recommendation is that if a class observes a classmate being physically bullied, the ENTIRE CLASS should gang up and beat the crap out of the bully.

Bullies bully because people are afraid to stand up to them and kick their asses. Do that a couple of times and bullies quickly change their behavior.

We need way more of that and far less of this simpering, cowardly pacifist socialist "good little proletarian" bullshit in our schools.

I more or less agree with the sentiment here (if not as strongly as stated), but you've also got to remember that a lot of bullies are being bullied at home or elsewhere, hence why they become bullies themselves.

That's a different problem that needs to be addressed after the bully has had the shit beaten out of him by his peers as an expression of their disfavor of his atavistic and criminal behavior. Once he quits criminally attacking others, then he can go into therapy to fix whatever motivated him to do so. But the priority here is not sympathy for some poor little darling that decides to take his frustrations and rage out on someone else, it's to show him that such behavior is unacceptable under any circumstances and that the penalty for engaging in that sort of behavior is painful operant conditioning by his peers and the community. When he shows signs of surrender and remorse for his actions, then, and only then does the focus turn towards treating whatever mental problems he might have.

There's absolutely no reason to endure bullies with the notion that they are just poor abused kids themselves. They may be, but there's absolutely NO excuse for initiating violence on another because you can't control your emotions.

They're kids, Seth. They biologically have poor emotional control. I've got no sympathy for a bully that gets the shit kicked out of them (as in the video I posted). But as a general aproch to the wider problem, "operant conditioning" isn't going to work. Nor is it humane.

[tattuchu]

People have different views and ways, but if you have a problem with someone using the toilet as a chair, while having a talk, that is definitely your problem, not theirs. Just as if you have a problem with men painting their nails, that is your problem, not theirs. Stop trying to push your problems on other people.

I can't express my opinion? I can't say I think someone is weird for doing something that I think is weird?

Sorry for the confusion about the "keeping her pants on" comment. I only meant I hope she isn't taking a dump while talking to her kid. It was meant as a joke (I don't seriously think she was taking a dump).

[MiM]

People have different views and ways, but if you have a problem with someone using the toilet as a chair, while having a talk, that is definitely your problem, not theirs. Just as if you have a problem with men painting their nails, that is your problem, not theirs. Stop trying to push your problems on other people.

I can't express my opinion? I can't say I think someone is weird for doing something that I think is weird?

Don't panic! Of course you can, that was just a piece of friendly advice.