...and justice for all

[JimC]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

The third potential reason is simply in preventing harm to the rest of society by removing people likely to reoffend...

[FBM]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

The third potential reason is simply in preventing harm to the rest of society by removing people likely to reoffend...

True that. And I think that's where pedophiles fit in. My understanding is that they have such a high rate of recidivism that releasing them back into society is just setting up another offense or string of offenses. Here in Korea, they've started using chemical castration.

[mistermack]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

They are both good reasons for putting people in prison. Victims and their families and friends need the retribution element, otherwise they would take the law into their own hands.

And rehabilitation works, by prisoners not wanting to go back to jail. None of the rest of that shit does any good. I would personally make all jail solitary. Except for people who will never get out.

A year in solitary, and people might try to stay straight on the outside.
Fuck em. You have to be pretty nasty to get jailed in Britain. If you cross that line, your rights should be zero. Other than the right to life and safety.

[Hermit]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

The third potential reason is simply in preventing harm to the rest of society by removing people likely to reoffend...

A fourth is aversion therapy. Time spent in gaol makes many convicted criminals less likely to reoffend. The prospect of unattractive consequences also makes people who have never been incarcerated themselves less likely to break a law.

[JimC]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

The third potential reason is simply in preventing harm to the rest of society by removing people likely to reoffend...

A fourth is aversion therapy. Time spent in gaol makes many convicted criminals less likely to reoffend. The prospect of unattractive consequences also makes people who have never been incarcerated themselves less likely to break a law.

Good point...

[pErvinalia]

So what is the most common treatment or "cure" for pedophilia?

Lot's of free sex with hot legal women!

[pErvinalia]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

Yeah, I agree with this. But whatever system is adopted, it has to be fair and equal to all parts of society. Rich people shouldn't be getting off for spurious reasons like some of the examples in this thread.

[JimC]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

Yeah, I agree with this. But whatever system is adopted, it has to be fair and equal to all parts of society. Rich people shouldn't be getting off for spurious reasons like some of the examples in this thread.

A good part of the imbalance is down to the wealthy being able to afford teams of highly competent lawyers, whereas the poor may have rely on themselves, or an overworked hack from Legal Aid.

Additionally, poor people may be over-represented in the prison system because certain types of crime may seem to be their only means of escape from grinding poverty, or their only way to achieve status amongst their peers. Increasing equality in society should assist these problems. (and no, Seth, that does not have to mean stopping entrepreneurs from prospering...)

[pErvinalia]

Is incarceration for retribution or rehabilitation? If it's the former, then we're always going to be in deep shit as a society. The main problem with the current criminal justice system (US) is that it's based on a revenge motive, rather than a social health one. In my opinion.

Yeah, I agree with this. But whatever system is adopted, it has to be fair and equal to all parts of society. Rich people shouldn't be getting off for spurious reasons like some of the examples in this thread.

A good part of the imbalance is down to the wealthy being able to afford teams of highly competent lawyers, whereas the poor may have rely on themselves, or an overworked hack from Legal Aid.

I agree this is a problem, but how much of a problem is it really? In terms of convictions vs non-convictions, I imagine it is relevant. But in terms of sentencing, it's the Judge who is the legal expert. It shouldn't (and I doubt it does) matter whether the legal teams are unequal. The Judge should sentence based on the facts in the case. Not by the number of suits on either team.

[JimC]

Our legal system is an adversarial system, where the judges are expected to hear legal arguments for and against the guilt of an accused. If only in being able to find precedents, and explore technicalities, an expert legal team may well be able to convince a judge, whereas a hack may not.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, but that's not relevant to sentencing. That's relevant to conviction. We are talking about sentencing here.

[JimC]

Yeah, but that's not relevant to sentencing. That's relevant to conviction. We are talking about sentencing here.

I was, perhaps making a more general point about the inequality of the legal process to different strata of wealth. I suppose you are right that sentencing itself, given a conviction, will not be affected by the quality of the lawyers, although I think the defence is entitled to bring up mitigating factors; that could be done well, or done poorly...

[FBM]

I wish prison sentences would require that the inmate get a GED and/or a degree in something in order to qualify for release, regardless of whether or not they've finished doing their time. Exceptions made for people with certain conditions, of course.

Some good reading here about the differences between the American and Nordic approaches to incarceration:

Nordic Prison Overview

Conceivably, many Americans conceptualize their global understanding of prison through their beliefs, experiences, and media portrayal of the national legal system. Consequently, it may be difficult to conceive of a prison system that does not rely almost exclusively on punitive measures, but rather attends to the rights and rehabilitation of inmates. In contrast to the American Prison System, the framework of the Nordic Prison System serves to rehabilitate inmates to directly address recidivism (Pratt, 2008). For example, while the largest Nordic prison houses approximately 350 inmates, the majority of these prisons are relatively small and house around 100 inmates (Pratt, 2008). The philosophy behind the limited prison size is to maintain several active prisons in many different parts of the country, allowing prisoners to reside in closer proximity to their family and home environment (Pratt, 2008). Consequently, Nordic prisoners can maintain their roots in their communities and family bonds, while receiving rehabilitation services within the prison walls.

[pErvinalia]

Scandalous!! Adapt or die!

[FBM]