Personal airing - RD swagger sticks thread tangent

[CJ]

So here we go again; into a pointless, divisive, self destructive slanging match that can archive nothing good as long as people get personal. This place came about to get away from this sort of shit and yet here it comes again. I for one don't want to see it and don't appreciate the members who appear to just want to score points off each other, it's juvenile and totally unnecessary.

This place isn't a platform to resurrect old grudges. Kevin and I have history, not all good, and when he joined I will confess my heart sank a little, but he left that history behind and so have I. I don't want to see all that old shit raked over here, this is a place for fun and friendship. If you value this place for what it has become and what it can continue to be, I ask you all to let this thread die, don't feed the cancer of enmity or it will do here what it did at RDF and TAF. Take the constructive, impersonal elements from it but leave the personal invective behind please.

Regards
Chris

[klr]

So here we go again; into a pointless, divisive, self destructive slanging match that can archive nothing good as long as people get personal. This place came about to get away from this sort of shit and yet here it comes again. I for one don't want to see it and don't appreciate the members who appear to just want to score points off each other, it's juvenile and totally unnecessary.

This place isn't a platform to resurrect old grudges. Kevin and I have history, not all good, and when he joined I will confess my heart sank a little, but he left that history behind and so have I. I don't want to see all that old shit raked over here, this is a place for fun and friendship. If you value this place for what it has become and what it can continue to be, I ask you all to let this thread die, don't feed the cancer of enmity or it will do here what it did at RDF and TAF. Take the constructive, impersonal elements from it but leave the personal invective behind please.

Regards
Chris

+1

Since I came here, I've gone out of my way to be discreet and not rock the boat, even though I could talk forever and a day about many things and many people. But I don't, because I didn't come here for that, and I don't believe that is what this place is for. Either air one's thoughts constructively in public in the right context, or in private if needs be, or else maintain a polite silence. Yes, there are lessons to be learned, but one of those is to know the when and the how.

[Geoff]

So here we go again; into a pointless, divisive, self destructive slanging match that can archive nothing good as long as people get personal. This place came about to get away from this sort of shit and yet here it comes again. I for one don't want to see it and don't appreciate the members who appear to just want to score points off each other, it's juvenile and totally unnecessary.

This place isn't a platform to resurrect old grudges. Kevin and I have history, not all good, and when he joined I will confess my heart sank a little, but he left that history behind and so have I. I don't want to see all that old shit raked over here, this is a place for fun and friendship. If you value this place for what it has become and what it can continue to be, I ask you all to let this thread die, don't feed the cancer of enmity or it will do here what it did at RDF and TAF. Take the constructive, impersonal elements from it but leave the personal invective behind please.

Regards
Chris

+1

[Clinton Huxley]

+IV to CJ

Now can everyone just please relax!

[Pappa]

+1 from the forum Smurf too.

[Hermit]

don't feed the cancer of enmity or it will do here what it did at RDF and TAF. Take the constructive, impersonal elements from it but leave the personal invective behind please.

Group hug?



I think personal insults and flame wars should not be on this forum's menu, but this should not preclude posts that are critical, even if they explicitly refer to an individual member of this forum. To my mind, LordPasternack's posts were fair comment, KLR's replies, though reflecting a considerable amount of resentment, was well within the range of acceptability, but ManofNoFaith's numerous insults were well out of order. He buried some quite good points under a mountain of totally useless invective.

When people join, they click on a box that indicates that they will abide by the rules. I don't understand why so many of them feel free to ignore "No ad hominem attacks (ie. no personal attacks). If you don't agree with someone, attack their argument or beliefs, not their person", and to top it off have the nerve to attempt a defense of the breach.

[Shaker]

Hear hear and huzzah.

Now please, can we all make a pot of English Breakfast, put on an Incredible String Band LP, put some patchouli in the oil burner and make like a fridge and chill

[Chinaski]

Hear hear and huzzah.

Now please, can we all make a pot of English Breakfast, put on an Incredible String Band LP, put some patchouli in the oil burner and make like a fridge and chill

I'm totally chill.

+666 to what CJ said.

[charlou]

*pinches Seraph's bum*

Hear hear and huzzah.

Now please, can we all make a pot of English Breakfast, put on an Incredible String Band LP, put some patchouli in the oil burner and make like a fridge and chill

Don't mind if I do ...

[AshtonBlack]

Well said CJ.

[lordpasternack]

When people join, they click on a box that indicates that they will abide by the rules. I don't understand why so many of them feel free to ignore "No ad hominem attacks (ie. no personal attacks). If you don't agree with someone, attack their argument or beliefs, not their person", and to top it off have the nerve to attempt a defense of the breach.

In fairness, though I skipped past some of MoNF's post, I didn't actually see any direct ad hominem attacks or arguments - it was just utterly combatative from the word go. It breached our "play nice" guideline - but I'm not sure about ad homs.

As for those agreeing that they don't like this dialogue - well - isn't that the same attitude that many have shown some of us at various stages in our development: "I dislike this kind of speech here, therefore it should be stopped."

As for the appeal to the rulebook "that you agreed to" - I don't like it much at RDF, and I'm not that partial to it here.

I think we all know my views with regards to free expression and such like - though I also appreciate that this is a community forum, where the community will decide the type of dialogue that it wants, and whatnot. I just hope that we don't end up going down the OBC route and basically telling people: "Have fun, or fuck off. No unpleasant discussion here."

And if it's any consolation to MoNF, at least he'll never likely be permabanned here.

[charlou]

When people join, they click on a box that indicates that they will abide by the rules. I don't understand why so many of them feel free to ignore "No ad hominem attacks (ie. no personal attacks). If you don't agree with someone, attack their argument or beliefs, not their person", and to top it off have the nerve to attempt a defense of the breach.

In fairness, though I skipped past some of MoNF's post, I didn't actually see any direct ad hominem attacks or arguments - it was just utterly combatative from the word go. It breached our "play nice" guideline - but I'm not sure about ad homs.

As for those agreeing that they don't like this dialogue - well - isn't that the same attitude that many have shown some of us at various stages in our development: "I dislike this kind of speech here, therefore it should be stopped."

As for the appeal to the rulebook "that you agreed to" - I don't like it much at RDF, and I'm not that partial to it here.

I think we all know my views with regards to free expression and such like - though I also appreciate that this is a community forum, where the community will decide the type of dialogue that it wants, and whatnot. I just hope that we don't end up going down the OBC route and basically telling people: "Have fun, or fuck off. No unpleasant discussion here."

And if it's any consolation to MoNF, at least he'll never likely be permabanned here.

MoNF made some good points which he could have articulated just as well without the invective.

[Kristie]

When people join, they click on a box that indicates that they will abide by the rules. I don't understand why so many of them feel free to ignore "No ad hominem attacks (ie. no personal attacks). If you don't agree with someone, attack their argument or beliefs, not their person", and to top it off have the nerve to attempt a defense of the breach.

In fairness, though I skipped past some of MoNF's post, I didn't actually see any direct ad hominem attacks or arguments - it was just utterly combatative from the word go. It breached our "play nice" guideline - but I'm not sure about ad homs.

As for those agreeing that they don't like this dialogue - well - isn't that the same attitude that many have shown some of us at various stages in our development: "I dislike this kind of speech here, therefore it should be stopped."

As for the appeal to the rulebook "that you agreed to" - I don't like it much at RDF, and I'm not that partial to it here.

I think we all know my views with regards to free expression and such like - though I also appreciate that this is a community forum, where the community will decide the type of dialogue that it wants, and whatnot. I just hope that we don't end up going down the OBC route and basically telling people: "Have fun, or fuck off. No unpleasant discussion here."

And if it's any consolation to MoNF, at least he'll never likely be permabanned here.

MoNF made some good points which he could have articulated just as well without the invective.

Good points that most people probably even missed because of the way he presented them. :-|

[Hermit]

When people join, they click on a box that indicates that they will abide by the rules. I don't understand why so many of them feel free to ignore "No ad hominem attacks (ie. no personal attacks). If you don't agree with someone, attack their argument or beliefs, not their person", and to top it off have the nerve to attempt a defense of the breach.

In fairness, though I skipped past some of MoNF's post, I didn't actually see any direct ad hominem attacks or arguments - it was just utterly combative from the word go. It breached our "play nice" guideline - but I'm not sure about ad homs.

As for those agreeing that they don't like this dialogue - well - isn't that the same attitude that many have shown some of us at various stages in our development: "I dislike this kind of speech here, therefore it should be stopped."

As for the appeal to the rulebook "that you agreed to" - I don't like it much at RDF, and I'm not that partial to it here.

[..]

I said MoNF buried some quite good points under a mountain of invective. As far as personal insults are concerned, you must have missed the bit where he asked, rhetorically, if KLR is hallucinating, and promptly answered the question himself in the affirmative: "Because that's about the only thing that would excuse all the bullshit you're spewing out."

I don't know about you, but whenever I fill in a form to become a member of a forum, I am faced with the choice of either ticking the box that signals my agreement to keep to the rules or aborting the registration process. If I chose the former option - and you may have noticed me doing this at RDF - this does not stop me from volubly objecting to some of those rules, or to strenuously rail against the way they are interpreted, implemented or selectively applied. I do, however, feel obliged to abide by the rules, for that was the condition of admittance.

MoNF seems to have no such intent. After disingenuously pleading with the mods that there is nothing objectionable in the post he is about to send, he hurls a shit load of invective and a clear ad hom at KLR, and in a later post makes his attitude regarding insults perfectly clear. Reacting approvingly to Gawdzilla calling someone a fucking idiot at RDF (for which he copped his first warning) he said: "Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade." All I can say is that if he didn't intend to stay within the rules, he should not have registered in the first place, but given that he has registered anyway, he'll just have to face the consequences, whatever they are.


In closing, let me reiterate this: Your remarks regarding KLR's activities were nowhere within cooee of insult. If he feels insulted, that is his problem. I regard measured criticism of any forum member as perfectly legitimate. KLR's demand to keep such criticism out of the public arena, however, is neither reasonable, nor desirable, nor is there any support for it in the rules. Not unless he manages to have the rules amended to suit his idea of what this forum should be about. I think his idea can be divined here:

I've gone out of my way to be discreet and not rock the boat, even though I could talk forever and a day about many things and many people. But I don't, because I didn't come here for that, and I don't believe that is what this place is for. Either air one's thoughts constructively in public in the right context, or in private if needs be, or else maintain a polite silence. Yes, there are lessons to be learned, but one of those is to know the when and the how.

(My Emphasis)

[Don't Panic]

So here we go again; into a pointless, divisive, self destructive slanging match that can archive nothing good as long as people get personal. This place came about to get away from this sort of shit and yet here it comes again. I for one don't want to see it and don't appreciate the members who appear to just want to score points off each other, it's juvenile and totally unnecessary.

This place isn't a platform to resurrect old grudges. Kevin and I have history, not all good, and when he joined I will confess my heart sank a little, but he left that history behind and so have I. I don't want to see all that old shit raked over here, this is a place for fun and friendship. If you value this place for what it has become and what it can continue to be, I ask you all to let this thread die, don't feed the cancer of enmity or it will do here what it did at RDF and TAF. Take the constructive, impersonal elements from it but leave the personal invective behind please.

Regards
Chris

+1

Since I came here, I've gone out of my way to be discreet and not rock the boat, even though I could talk forever and a day about many things and many people. But I don't, because I didn't come here for that, and I don't believe that is what this place is for. Either air one's thoughts constructively in public in the right context, or in private if needs be, or else maintain a polite silence. Yes, there are lessons to be learned, but one of those is to know the when and the how.

+42 to both Kev and Chris.