GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Predictions

[pErvinalia]

We're both going to get a wall of text for this. I nominate you, Scot, to deal with it!

[Scot Dutchy]

We're both going to get a wall of text for this. I nominate you, Scot, to deal with it!

Thank you very much

[Animavore]

Portentous.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... ld-trumps/

This golden mole is only spotted 10 times a century - he is incredibly rare.

From above, he looks like Donald Drumpf's hair - if the presidential hopeful used a lot more shine serum and conditioner.

When you look at their tiny faces, you can see they are a lot cuter than Mr Drumpf.

[Svartalf]

Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.

isn't he far too left wing for the US at all?

[Scot Dutchy]

Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.

isn't he far too left wing for the US at all?

Well on all other policy fields yes but immigration and muslims he is as right as Le Pen.

[Svartalf]

well, he can't be wrong on every point can he?

[Scot Dutchy]

No but he does not have clear overview of his policies. It is very uncoordinated and changes to much just to score political points. He was part of one coalition but that barely lasted a year.

[Forty Two]

The reason why the establishment is upset by Drumpf is that he is not bought and paid for -- he is not controlled by the moneyed interests, yet. If he would come to heel, they'd back him 100%. He just has to be willing to not do what he has so far said all along he wants to do.

Trump is moneyed interests.

He's not the establishment moneyed interest. If he was, they'd be backing him. They're backing Hillary.

[Forty Two]

That is the man-child is about; MONEY! He is like a kid in a sweety shop (candy store). Just bleating away. Saying nothing but anything.

He's the one talking about the 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, which is a big problem because we have a very low labor participation rate among born and naturalized citizens, and part of the cause is the 11 million people that are here without work authorization.

He's the one talking about international trade and US manufacturing.

Hillary's "got your back", though. So. You have that going for you.

[Forty Two]

I disagree, of course. I'm no fan of Hillary, but you can largely work out how she would react in a crisis,

That's the problem with her. Her reactions are not that great. She's like the French commander in Casablanca -- no commitment, just blows with the wind.

as she's an adult with experience in dealing with serious international issues.

and her record is terrible. She's a neocon hawk.

Non-sequitur. Your second favourite logical fallacy. I wasn't commenting on whether her decisions were good or not, just that you aren't going to get any great shocks regarding her choice of action.

I'd love to get the shock that she'd make a great decision, or the shock that she'd accomplish something important other than getting herself elected.

You can feel free to support Hillary because she's, from your perspective, the safe, predictable choice. I prefer real change, and someone who is correctly identifying big problems, like international trade issues and illegal immigration, and suggesting things to do about. The status quo is not something we can afford. Hillary is status quo.

[Forty Two]

Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.

Well, Wilders has come out and stated that he wants Trump to be elected. But, note, also, that Trump is to the left of Hillary Clinton on most issues.

What you consider left is in Dutch politics extreme right. We dont have a party so extreme right as the GOP.

Right -- that's the European mantra. So, when Wilders supports Trump, it's like a US politician on the left is supporting Trump. Therefore, it stands to reason that US left-leaning politicians and voters are very justified in supporting Trump. After all, they're really so far right they don't even exist in a place like the Netherlands. Even the Green Party here in the US is to the right of Wilders' party.

[Forty Two]

No no, Scott. The US is actually left of the rest of the world. 42 informed us that despite the whole world moving to the right since neoliberalism kicked off, the US has moved to the left.

Ummm.... wut.... where did I say the "US is actually left of the rest of the world?" I said the US was left of where it was 40 years ago. That's nothing to do with being left of the rest of the world.

Well given the rest of the western world has moved to the right significantly, the US must have been spectacularly right wing in the 70's!

Oh, when you say "the rest of the world" you mean the "western world." Got it. Once again, what the rest of the world does has nothing to do with what the US did. US law, policy and politics is much left of where we were in the 1970s -- legal abortion, gay marriage, much expanded welfare state, greatly expanded "worker protections" (as you would call them), much expanded government provided health care (not just Obamacare subsidies, but Medicaid and Medicare expansions), much expanded Social Security benefits, more environmental controls/regulations, more intrusive regulations on business, more restrictions on nuclear power, far less religiosity in the culture (far fewer people identify with a religion today than 40 or 50 years ago), etc.

[piscator]

Chamber of Commerce: Trump's trade policy would cause U.S. recession

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is using a recent analysis commissioned by The Washington Post to argue that Donald Trump's trade policy platform could cause a recession.
The business group, which is a consistent backer of Republican politicians, said in a blog post Friday that a recession would set in during the first year under the Republican front-runner's proposed tariffs because China and Mexico would likely impose retaliatory tariffs.

Trump has proposed a 35 percent tariff on Mexican imports to offset the $58 billion annual bilateral trade deficit and a 45 percent tariff on Chinese goods to offset Beijing's alleged currency manipulation.
"Does a recession sound 'great' to you?" wrote J.D. Harrison, senior editor of digital content for the Chamber. "Does 7 million lost jobs sound like 'winning?' No, probably not. And yet, that's exactly where our country would be headed under Trump's trade policies, according to an analysis released last week."
Harrison said even if those countries decided not to retaliate — "an unlikely scenario based on recent history" — the tariffs would still result in the loss of at least 2 million jobs, and at least 1.5 million more wouldn't be created.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/d ... z4BeJZw6vT
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[Forty Two]

The trouble is America has not got a clue what left wing politics are. They just move from ultra extreme right to right wing.

Good, because leftist politics is not something a civilized country would aspire to. Liberal politics, yes, and we do understand liberalism here in the US. The leftists are fighting hard, though, and they will likely succeed, it appears to me, in ushering a wave of authoritarianism to the US.

Left wing, in the US, means liberal. We don't have a very strong "leftist" movement in the US, yet. However, the sympathy with socialism is really on the rise, fast among the younger crowd, 35 and under. The silver lining is that it doesn't seem that many progressive leftists in the US can correctly define socialism, so it may wear off. But, the bizarre thing is that they appear to believe that socialism is a good or an ideal goal which will better our lives, and they seem oblivious to the fact that liberty and economic freedom have been the biggest drivers of prosperity in the western world.

I'm am quite interested in learning a bit about Dutch politics, and what your major left wing party(ies) advocate. Do you have a source or a summary that can be accessed in English? I would love to see how far left they are, if they really are so far left of the left wing politics in the US. I mean, do Dutch leftists parties advocate for state control of the means of production? Making profit illegal? All rents paid to the state? Collective raising of children? Creation of industrial armies? Worker democratic control of industries/businesses? Marxian economics? Keynesian economics? Social markets? Nationalization? Central planning?

Left can mean a lot of things, so it would be helpful to know what the enlightened left of the Netherlands support.

[Animavore]

The reason why the establishment is upset by Drumpf is that he is not bought and paid for -- he is not controlled by the moneyed interests, yet. If he would come to heel, they'd back him 100%. He just has to be willing to not do what he has so far said all along he wants to do.

Drumpf is moneyed interests.

He's not the establishment moneyed interest. If he was, they'd be backing him. They're backing Hillary.

They are backing him. He has the backing of the GOP.