GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Predictions

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Forty Two » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:35 am

eRv wrote:I disagree, of course. I'm no fan of Hillary, but you can largely work out how she would react in a crisis,
That's the problem with her. Her reactions are not that great. She's like the French commander in Casablanca -- no commitment, just blows with the wind.
eRv wrote: as she's an adult with experience in dealing with serious international issues.
and her record is terrible. She's a neocon hawk.
eRv wrote: Trump has the maturity level (and bureaucratic knowledge) of a teenager, so there's simply no way to know what he would do in a crisis. He's off the reservation. If nothing major happened in his presidency, it might be a fairly innocuous term. But if something goes wrong, then anything could happen. And that's a scary thing regarding the world's biggest military and (sort of) economic power.
We need someone who is not the status quo. I realize that your concern is to feel safe and make sure that everything just goes along as it has been, with the US entering a lumbering decline, safe and no sudden movements -- but, the US is at a historical turning point. There is no coming back from it if the US continues to lose its manufacturing base. We cannot survive with the open borders we have had, and we cannot survive just hemoraging money with huge trade deficits and basing out standard of living on a financial house of cards. Something must be done to stop this trend, and Trump is the only one talking about seriously doing something about it. It's going to require some sack to change things around.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Animavore » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:07 am

Forty Two wrote:
Animavore wrote:Drumpf really has no class. His tower is as tacky as the Vatican. I'm really going to enjoy the fail train the next few months.
Elizabeth Warren's "class" includes claiming to be native American when she has only the (alleged) statements from her grandmother that family rumor had it that they were of native American decent....

There is no other evidence, of any kind that has been produced to prove it. And, I suppose if she wanted to she should be able to do a DNA test to see if she has a marker.
Why are you talking about Elizabeth Warren? I neither know nor care who she is.

Jesus these, I know you are but what am I? arguments are getting tedious. You're such a tattletale.

EDIT: Ok, I can see how you thought my post was a direct response to a post above it about Warren, but actually I had just been reading his Twitter page when I wrote that.

Still though, if I say I don't like Drumpf for a specific reason, the rebuttal isn't, "So's your mum." It doesn't negate my personal opinion of him.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Forty Two » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:32 am

When you're at a point in an election where there are only a few major voices involved, if you say that John Smith is a jerk because of Y, then responding that Jane Doe is a bigger jerk because of Y or Z is perfectly relevant. The issue is which one is better, or which one is less of a jerk.

At least, that's the way I approach it. Donald Trump is a jerk. He is a selfish, egotistical, loudmouth who gets what he wants through an iteration of "personal power" tactics and loud demands for accommodation, together with a strategy of applying needed pressure to compel others to do what he wants or give him the deal that he wants. He is a businessman whose motivation was to make lots of money. He made political donations looking to curry favor, and he got those favors. He has no experience in government and likely has very little legal or constitutional knowledge, and he's more of a businessman than a politician.

However, Hillary Clinton is a jerk too, and she's a bigger jerk, in my view (other views can differ) because she is a bald-faced liar about both important and minor things. She is self-aggrandizing, egotistical, demanding, and patronizing. She will say whatever she needs to get elected, and she will change her positions with the political wind (e.g. Iraq and gay marriage). She is the establishment, Wall Street backed candidate who is in their pocket and has no interest in solving the immigration problem or the balance of trade. She is a war hawk, and has not opposed a military venture since Vietnam (if she even opposed that). Her presidency is bought and paid for by the conservative establishment, the money interests, and the military industrial complex.

The reason why the establishment is upset by Trump is that he is not bought and paid for -- he is not controlled by the moneyed interests, yet. If he would come to heel, they'd back him 100%. He just has to be willing to not do what he has so far said all along he wants to do.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Animavore » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:39 am

Forty Two wrote:The reason why the establishment is upset by Drumpf is that he is not bought and paid for -- he is not controlled by the moneyed interests, yet. If he would come to heel, they'd back him 100%. He just has to be willing to not do what he has so far said all along he wants to do.
Trump is moneyed interests.

:fp:
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:50 am

That is the man-child is about; MONEY! He is like a kid in a sweety shop (candy store). Just bleating away. Saying nothing but anything.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:51 am

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:I disagree, of course. I'm no fan of Hillary, but you can largely work out how she would react in a crisis,
That's the problem with her. Her reactions are not that great. She's like the French commander in Casablanca -- no commitment, just blows with the wind.
eRv wrote: as she's an adult with experience in dealing with serious international issues.
and her record is terrible. She's a neocon hawk.
Non-sequitur. Your second favourite logical fallacy. I wasn't commenting on whether her decisions were good or not, just that you aren't going to get any great shocks regarding her choice of action.
eRv wrote: Trump has the maturity level (and bureaucratic knowledge) of a teenager, so there's simply no way to know what he would do in a crisis. He's off the reservation. If nothing major happened in his presidency, it might be a fairly innocuous term. But if something goes wrong, then anything could happen. And that's a scary thing regarding the world's biggest military and (sort of) economic power.
We need someone who is not the status quo. I realize that your concern is to feel safe and make sure that everything just goes along as it has been, with the US entering a lumbering decline, safe and no sudden movements -- but, the US is at a historical turning point. There is no coming back from it if the US continues to lose its manufacturing base. We cannot survive with the open borders we have had, and we cannot survive just hemoraging money with huge trade deficits and basing out standard of living on a financial house of cards. Something must be done to stop this trend, and Trump is the only one talking about seriously doing something about it. It's going to require some sack to change things around.
I don't fundamentally disagree with this, as you know, and I don't want to see the US entering a lumbering decline (unless it continues it's irrational aggressive ways). The problem is that just because Trump is anti-establishment he will somehow deliver this. The drunken bum in the local park is anti-establishment. Would you elect him to president just because he meets that criteria?
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:31 am

Trump is just a big spoilt kid and you dont let a spoilt kid become president.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:29 pm

We need someone Dutch involved. Let me check if Geert Wilders is eligible to serve as Vice President.

Image

Since we know that conservative/right in Europe would be considered liberal or left in the US, support from Geert Wilders is like support from a US liberal Democrat.....
Last edited by Forty Two on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:32 pm

Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:33 pm

No no, Scott. The US is actually left of the rest of the world. 42 informed us that despite the whole world moving to the right since neoliberalism kicked off, the US has moved to the left.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:35 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.
Well, Wilders has come out and stated that he wants Trump to be elected. But, note, also, that Trump is to the left of Hillary Clinton on most issues.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:40 pm

eRv wrote:No no, Scott. The US is actually left of the rest of the world. 42 informed us that despite the whole world moving to the right since neoliberalism kicked off, the US has moved to the left.

Ummm.... wut.... where did I say the "US is actually left of the rest of the world?" I said the US was left of where it was 40 years ago. That's nothing to do with being left of the rest of the world.

Further, there is no unified "rest of the world." The US is to the left of some countries, and to the right of other countries. And, depending on the topic, the US is to the left of some countries on some things, and to the right of some countries on other things. Only a complete ignoramus, or a monumentally uneducated fool, would possibly make the stupid statement that the US is to the right or left of "the rest of the world." The very statement is nonsensical.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:41 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Wilders is far to left wing for Trump. They would only agree about muslims.
Well, Wilders has come out and stated that he wants Trump to be elected. But, note, also, that Trump is to the left of Hillary Clinton on most issues.
What you consider left is in Dutch politics extreme right. We dont have a party so extreme right as the GOP.
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:42 pm

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:No no, Scott. The US is actually left of the rest of the world. 42 informed us that despite the whole world moving to the right since neoliberalism kicked off, the US has moved to the left.

Ummm.... wut.... where did I say the "US is actually left of the rest of the world?" I said the US was left of where it was 40 years ago. That's nothing to do with being left of the rest of the world.
Well given the rest of the western world has moved to the right significantly, the US must have been spectacularly right wing in the 70's!
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Re: GOP Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes and Prediction

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:00 pm

The trouble is America has not got a clue what left wing politics are. They just move from ultra extreme right to right wing.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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