Is The Modern World A Chimera?

[Coito ergo sum]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'll almost certainly be dead in under 40 years anyway. Odds are, any preparations of the kind you're referring to are a waste of what little time I have.

[FBM]

The word "modern" is a silly word. 1410 B.C.E. was "modern" in 1410 B.C.E. 2012 will be distant history some day.

[Coito ergo sum]

The word "modern" is a silly word. 1410 B.C.E. was "modern" in 1410 B.C.E. 2012 will be distant history some day.

I think that was pre-postmodern antiquity.

[Pappa]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'm sure I would survive, even thrive of civilisation collapsed. The only things I'd miss are the Internet and antibiotics.

[Atheist-Lite]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'm sure I would survive, even thrive of civilisation collapsed. The only things I'd miss are the Internet and antibiotics.

You woudn't miss anti-biotics that much these days. And the internet is just wires.

[Pappa]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'm sure I would survive, even thrive of civilisation collapsed. The only things I'd miss are the Internet and antibiotics.

You woudn't miss anti-biotics that much these days. And the internet is just wires.

Nope, it's information. That'd be a very valuable commodity too.

[Atheist-Lite]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'm sure I would survive, even thrive of civilisation collapsed. The only things I'd miss are the Internet and antibiotics.

You woudn't miss anti-biotics that much these days. And the internet is just wires.

Nope, it's information. That'd be a very valuable commodity too.

You'd best download some then and print out the useful bits before the country runs out of electricity to make it go?

[Robert_S]

That isn't to say with but a small amount of preperation both in terms of material expediency and cognitive reserve you can't increase your odds of surviving what must be counted alongside The Black Death and the trenches of WW1 one of the great historic traumatic events in human history thus far.

I'm sure I would survive, even thrive of civilisation collapsed. The only things I'd miss are the Internet and antibiotics.

You woudn't miss anti-biotics that much these days. And the internet is just wires.

Nope, it's information. That'd be a very valuable commodity too.

You'd best download some then and print out the useful bits before the country runs out of electricity to make it go?

Electricity isn't that difficult to make really.

[Coito ergo sum]

Most people would die pretty quickly. Hardly any of us, including myself, would know how to survive if we were instantly transported to 19th century life.

Recall, that once you go back about 125 years or so, most people are making their own soap out of animal fats, cutting their hair with knives, shitting outside, waking up and going to sleep with the sun, washing clothes in cold stream water, from which they also drew buckets of water (possibly from a well, if they lived in relative luxury), they bathed weekly (if that), and killed animals themselves every day for food.

Life was labor (or, "labour" in jolly ol' England) intensive, and the skill sets needed were 180 degrees different than those needed today.

In 2003, when there was a long term blackout in the northeast US, for several days to a week depending on location, I saw very quickly how the average person would react. In 48 hours, the supermarkets were closed and empty, the last places to draw clean water are gone in 3 days max, and city water needs to be boiled. Lines for fuel form at gas stations (many of which won't operate because the pumps are electronic, so people start stealing gas in three days or so). The neighbors get restless almost right away, calm down for a bit, and then after a few days of it, panic starts.

I have no doubt that in three weeks of no electricity, the State will need to lock whatever areas they can down with national guard, and people will begin killing each other to feed their kids.

So, in that respect, Crumple has a point. Those who don't understand what happens when the power and water go out, have their heads in the sand. It will get ugly, real quick. The United States would cease as a country if the electric grid was taken out and could not be reestablished in a month or so, max. In this day and age, no electricity would mean no oil or gas for heating and transportation, because the distribution system for those fuels require large amounts of electricity. Food would disappear because the stores could not function without electricity and distribution would shut down.

Be prepared for blood in the streets. And, before someone says it, it's not because I don't think well of my fellow human beings. It's not the humans that will be acting irrationally or selfishly, it's the interrelationships among humans that will compel violent action. In short, when your children are crying, hungry, thirsty, cold and/or sick, you will do almost anything to try to fix it. Think about it.

[mistermack]

I don't think that civilisation WILL collapse.
Just because it's happened before, that doesn't mean it has to happen again.

The reason it's collapsed in the past, is that each empire was based on ruthless exploitation of people by foreign people who spoke different languages.

Modern empires don't do that any more, and within a hundred years, everybody will be speaking English.
The "them versus us" mentality is evaporating. It's gradual, but with more and more people speaking the same language, and moving around the world, we will eventually stop regarding foreigners as totally different species. A lot of people are well on the way already. TV and travel are changing fundamental attitudes.
Wars are actually becoming rather rare and pretty small. And civilised behaviour returns quickly after they have finished. Look at the Balkans today.

So sorry Crumple, I think your theory is bollocks.

[JimC]

Hey - we'll make the most of what we've got, while we've got it. If/when it all falls apart, we'll either make do or we won't. If we don't make do then we'll die, and I'll worry about that when I get to it. I don't see any reason to get morbid about it either way - once we're gone we won't regret a thing.

And anyway, not a useful analogy. A chimera is implying a combination of disparate elements...

[Atheist-Lite]

Hey - we'll make the most of what we've got, while we've got it. If/when it all falls apart, we'll either make do or we won't. If we don't make do then we'll die, and I'll worry about that when I get to it. I don't see any reason to get morbid about it either way - once we're gone we won't regret a thing.

And anyway, not a useful analogy. A chimera is implying a combination of disparate elements...

Precisely. There is no wholesome integrity to the modern world. More a series of haphazard discoveries and invention being marketed in a arbitary manner according to the whims of a great ape, with a short attention span and no idea of true value. Thus resources, some critical to sustainable civilization and others doing needless damage to the biosphere, are squandered needlessly on a short-term population bust to boom cycle. There isn't any plan and the poverty of global ambitions are merely 'human all too human' to be frank. Producing more people until the everything crashes....without any idea how or why things exist in a deeply fundemental way. Whereas previous times people would at least be motivated by aesthetic appeal now even this is being abandoned in the quest for utilitarian optimisation of the adhoc social and economic arrangement some call the modern world.

[mistermack]

Hey - we'll make the most of what we've got, while we've got it. If/when it all falls apart, we'll either make do or we won't. If we don't make do then we'll die, and I'll worry about that when I get to it. I don't see any reason to get morbid about it either way - once we're gone we won't regret a thing.

And anyway, not a useful analogy. A chimera is implying a combination of disparate elements...

Precisely. There is no wholesome integrity to the modern world. More a series of haphazard discoveries and invention being marketed in a arbitary manner according to the whims of a great ape, with a short attention span and no idea of true value. Thus resources, some critical to sustainable civilization and others doing needless damage to the biosphere, are squandered needlessly on a short-term population bust to boom cycle. There isn't any plan and the poverty of global ambitions are merely 'human all too human' to be frank. Producing more people until the everything crashes....without any idea how or why things exist in a deeply fundemental way. Whereas previous times people would at least be motivated by aesthetic appeal now even this is being abandoned in the quest for utilitarian optimisation of the adhoc social and economic arrangement some call the modern world.

I don't get your point, unless it's religious.
We have an entire universe that got where it is by chaotic chance, producing random accretions of matter incredibly slowly. And life that got where it is by a similar process, and evolution by natural selection.
It's all random, there's no master plan. So what's new?
Why expect human society to run like a clock?

[rasetsu]

What's a Chimera? I'd love to Chimera but I kinna Chimichanga.




Prove to me there is a reality, and that it bears any relation to what you experience and believe, first. Cart. Horse.

(Oh, and Az, baby, lay off the donuts, pleeease.....)

[FBM]

What's a Chimera? ...

It's a cross between a chihuahua and a Camaro.