tuco wrote:Please do not respond.
LOL, yeah, right. Atheism Plus has an echo chamber, if that's what you're looking for.
Forty Two wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Yes, and you compared apparent sexism in video games to this, doofus. You are implying that it isn't really a problem.
Implying? No. Saying. I'm SAYING it's not really a problem. Because, well, it isn't. The fact that people make video games with or without female leads is not a problem. Nobody is stopping anyone from making any video game they want, and if people want a different video game, then if someone makes that different game it will sell like hotcakes.
The reality is that women don't want to play games like Grand Theft Auto, generally speaking, as the demographic of players in that realm and first person shooter games tend to be male. If there is an untapped market for female character games of that sort, then someone can make a fortune tapping into it.
Anita Sarkeesian is a prime example of the folks who bitch and complain about the content of video games, but then she admits that she doesn't even want to play those kind of games because shooting people and blowing people's heads off is "gross."
This is where I could not bear it anymore. Following your adult, intelligent and educated debate with someone who admittedly knows shit about what he talks about.
Once again, you're free to contribute the adult, intelligent and educated debate of which you refer. Why do you hesitate to do so?
Where are your data on what kind of games females WANT to play?
The demographics of the video game market. Other than that, there really isn't any data, particularly data to support the arguments of folks who claim the video game industry is sexist. The "data" offered by the Sarkeesians of the world is cherry-picking and mischaracterization of game play.
I don't see as I have a burden to show that video games are "not" sexist - I would think someone would have data to show that they are. Have we seen it? Certainly not posted here.
Generally speaking .. speaking bullshit. I posted data.
You did not post "data" -- I listened to the entire video by Mr. Gaider. There's no "data" there - just assumptions.
Also, there are folks out there stating that 1/2 of all video gamers are women. If that's the case, then how can it be said by Mr. Gaider that we have to "decide how not to repel women." Clearly, if half of the industry's consumers are women, then they aren't being "repelled" in the first place. They're playing the games they like.
What are we being asked to decide how "not to repel" women from? Playing Grand Theft Auto? Are 50% of the players of GTA women? If not, do we have to modify the game so women aren't repelled from playing it? Or, is it enough that there are games that women do like to play and they play those games? Or, if 50% of GTA players are women, then are they being repelled?
Mr Gaider talks about data and insight. You, and others, make shit up and post what you think, your opinion. I personally dont care about your opinion as everyone has one and why should I care about your or any other?
I have no idea why you should care. However, only an idiot would engage in a debate, over the course of weeks and dozens and dozens of posts, discussing and debating an issue they don't care about, or discussing the issue with people they feel are not seriously debating or discussing the issue. Why you would engage in a discussion with us morons for so long when you've already said we are just bickering like children, whereas you want to discuss the matter like an adult, is something you need to resolve for yourself.
I also explained Miss Sarkeesian involvement in this. She makes living by stirring this controversy and those who pay (dis-appropriate) attention to her production are part of the problem and not part of solution.
Well we're agreed on that.
So, what do you think the "problem" is? Can you define what you, the intellectual superior among us, think the problem is? Once you identify that for us, we can discuss it, and if we agree then perhaps we can discuss solutions.
And this is bickering:
Forty Two wrote:Assassin's Creed's player demographic is overwhelmingly male.
"Gaming" may be something enjoyed equally by men and women, but not all games are divided equally in terms of market.
Sexism remains in gaming for the same reason it remains in clothing and hairstyling. There is often a correlation between sex and a given market.
This is like complaining why Macy's doesn't sell cocktail dresses in the men's section.
You mean gender, not sex. And it depends on whether gender is a social construct or not.
and irrelevant at the same time. What gender vs sex (wtf is that anyway?) has to do with the issue at hand? I am sure someone could post-hoc some bullshit.
It wasn't me who brought up gender vs. sex. It wasn't relevant to my point, and someone else brought it up. I'm not responsible for what other people post.
Admittedly you in particular are the only one who actually gave the topic time and energy but you ignored part of the debate and focused on another.
Well, the beauty of a discussion forum is that parts of a debate can be discussed ad hoc, or together, or both. I discussed what I was interested in and had time for. The fact that you would have preferred I said something else is not a reason to go banging on about it. The thing to do in that situation is to IDENTIFY THE PART YOU THINK IS BEING IGNORED AND DISCUSS IT.
I am not going to guess why but after developer of AAA games states that 30% of players playing their games are females and offers some insight to video-games as being "hostile" environment for females, to say stuff like you did "overwhelmingly" and "do not want to play" just to further your point or to ask me what I contributed, is fucking weak at least.
You just agreed with me. If only 30% of game players are female, then the players are 'overwhelmingly' male. I would bet that if in general the percentage of women playing games is only 30%, then the players playing GTA are even far higher percentage male than that. GTA is a violent game where players mug, kill and steal and otherwise engage in criminal behavior. If the demographic for that game is 30% female, or anywhere close to that, I'll eat my hat.
And, if saying that women don't play GTA because they don't want to is "weak," then you'll have to explain that. Are you saying they really do want to play GTA badly, but are being prevented from doing so? If so, what? If the answer is that the game play doesn't appeal to women, then what do we do about it? Must all games appeal to women?
When I was growing up, hardly any women played games like Asteroids and Space Invaders. In fact, the playing of those games was considered a nerdy thing to do, and only geeks were "into computers" back then. Women made up a very small percentage of that market. Women never really got into the shoot-em-up games like Missile Command, Defender, Robotron, Asteroids, Zaxxon, and all the rest. What's the problem? How do "we" solve it?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar