An Open Letter from atheists to the Atheist Convention

[FedUpWithFaith]

I found your open letter to be presumptious, overbearing, stultifying and preachy. I don't know what a "grass roots atheist" is and depending on how you define atheism, your statement:

"Either atheism is for all, or it is worthless",

is prone, at a minimum, to misinterpretation, especially given your militant tone. You do rational discourse no service in my opinion. Trying to herd atheists is like herding cats. You'll just make them their own worst enemy. If you have a real and legitimate organization you have been elected to represent then you are entitled to make such a statement on its behalf. Otherwise, I think the letter embodies an attitude that many who love to attack atheism will embrace. You don't speak for me.

[J.A.Poisson]

I found your open letter to be presumptious, overbearing, stultifying and preachy. I don't know what a "grass roots atheist" is and depending on how you define atheism, your statement:

"Either atheism is for all, or it is worthless",

is prone, at a minimum, to misinterpretation, especially given your militant tone. You do rational discourse no service in my opinion. Trying to herd atheists is like herding cats. You'll just make them their own worst enemy. If you have a real and legitimate organization you have been elected to represent then you are entitled to make such a statement on its behalf. Otherwise, I think the letter embodies an attitude that many who love to attack atheism will embrace. You don't speak for me.

agreed

[Gurdur]

.... I'm trying to post a blog comment as an unregistered user, but it doesn't accept Heathen as the first word in the phrase "Heathen Hub".

Strange. It has been tested, and a lot of others are having no difficulty. I am sorry to hear of the hassle, and try reloading page.

[Gurdur]

I found your open letter to be presumptious, overbearing, stultifying and preachy.

No worries, mate, the feeling is mutual.

[maiforpeace]

We disassociate ourselves from all abusive individuals, whether anonymous or named, and we disassociate ourselves from all such abusive trolls who plague the media or the internet; they do not speak for atheism or for us at all,...

How does one "speak for atheism?"

Mind if we argue that one out some other time? Seems to me a practical, everyday reading of the phrase you quote is sufficient to the day thereof, and it doesn't seem like a very urgent issue needing explication stat.

Gurdur simply posted the letter and asked people to sign it if they agreed. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

This is always an interesting exercise when you ask people to do something simple like this Gurdur. I ask people to sign petitions and letters all the time, and I'm always a little perplexed at the people who spend all kinds of time explaining why they won't sign it, when they could simply just move on, or sign it in a fraction of the time it took them to go through all those explanations.

[FedUpWithFaith]

We disassociate ourselves from all abusive individuals, whether anonymous or named, and we disassociate ourselves from all such abusive trolls who plague the media or the internet; they do not speak for atheism or for us at all,...

How does one "speak for atheism?"

Mind if we argue that one out some other time? Seems to me a practical, everyday reading of the phrase you quote is sufficient to the day thereof, and it doesn't seem like a very urgent issue needing explication stat.

Gurdur simply posted the letter and asked people to sign it if they agreed. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

This is always an interesting exercise when you ask people to do something simple like this Gurdur. I ask people to sign petitions and letters all the time, and I'm always a little perplexed at the people who spend all kinds of time explaining why they won't sign it, when they could simply just move on, or sign it in a fraction of the time it took them to go through all those explanations.

Perhaps those who dissent, like me, and think it does more harm than good to a cause or community they are part of, would like the same opportunity to dissuade others from participating as the OP is seeking to persuade them to join.

Likewise, I thought your petition against that Jewish display in California was ill-advised and probably hurt what you stand for more than helped. Although I told you this after the fact, I didn't harp on you about it because you'd already done it. I think I stated my reservations about it in one short sentence. But if you had solicited people here before the fact to sign your petition (if that had been possible), I would have vociferously objected not only from my perspective as an atheist but for your own good as a friend should.

[FedUpWithFaith]

I found your open letter to be presumptious, overbearing, stultifying and preachy.

No worries, mate, the feeling is mutual.

Good to know you're open to constructive criticism. Apparently you only allow comments on your blog that agree with the letter and i haven't seen any dialogue from you with those that disagree with you, even on minor wording. It's not just me.

Seems to me you are embodying just the traits that so many say they find offensive about atheists. Great job!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Gurdur]

terrible. :pissed:

One man's fish is another man's poisson.

[Gurdur]

.... Good to know you're open to constructive criticism.

Oh, I will happily argue with anyone who is being honest. You pretending to be honest?

Apparently you only allow comments on your blog that agree with the letter

What was asked for were signatories, not trolling. One trolling comment from someone who really ought to know better was removed. Kiss my arse on that one; if you want to argue, argue honestly. Trolling in an inappropriate place is just that.

I am quite willing to argue. With those who are honest. You wanna try again?

and i haven't seen any dialogue from you with those that disagree with you, even on minor wording.

You obviously haven't looked around. Selection bias, it's a bitch. Now, do you think you can make any logical objection? Or was that only a rant in your pocket?

It's not just me.

You BWE then? Tsk. You've come down a lot in this world.

Seems to me you are embodying just the traits that so many say they find offensive about atheists. Great job!

Dude, I have a sense of humour, I recommend you get one too.

[FedUpWithFaith]

Funny to read this:

terrible. :pissed:

One man's fish is another man's poisson.

After this:

We disassociate ourselves from all abusive individuals, whether anonymous or named, and we disassociate ourselves from all such abusive trolls who plague the media or the internet; they do not speak for atheism or for us at all,...

How does one "speak for atheism?"

Mind if we argue that one out some other time? Seems to me a practical, everyday reading of the phrase you quote is sufficient to the day thereof, and it doesn't seem like a very urgent issue needing explication stat.

I see you have time for puns and insults but none for real discussion. I hope everyone here who signs your petition sees what they're getting mixed up with.
Not productive, to say the least.

[maiforpeace]

We disassociate ourselves from all abusive individuals, whether anonymous or named, and we disassociate ourselves from all such abusive trolls who plague the media or the internet; they do not speak for atheism or for us at all,...

How does one "speak for atheism?"

Mind if we argue that one out some other time? Seems to me a practical, everyday reading of the phrase you quote is sufficient to the day thereof, and it doesn't seem like a very urgent issue needing explication stat.

Gurdur simply posted the letter and asked people to sign it if they agreed. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

This is always an interesting exercise when you ask people to do something simple like this Gurdur. I ask people to sign petitions and letters all the time, and I'm always a little perplexed at the people who spend all kinds of time explaining why they won't sign it, when they could simply just move on, or sign it in a fraction of the time it took them to go through all those explanations.

Perhaps those who dissent, like me, and think it does more harm than good to a cause or community they are part of, would like the same opportunity to dissuade others from participating as the OP is seeking to persuade them to join.

Likewise, I thought your petition against that Jewish display in California was ill-advised and probably hurt what you stand for more than helped. Although I told you this after the fact, I didn't harp on you about it because you'd already done it. I think I stated my reservations about it in one short sentence. But if you had solicited people here before the fact to sign your petition (if that had been possible), I would have vociferously objected not only from my perspective as an atheist but for your own good as a friend should.

Why not let people think for themselves? Why this need to convince or dissuade? Gurdur didn't try to convince anyone to sign it. He simply asked people if they agreed with it to sign it.

Re: The petition. I did take a lot of flak for that petition, but they were only words. And, it did help our cause in the end and I'm glad I didn't take your advice. I have no regrets doing it, it brought attention to the issue, and now our city council is being forced to deal with it next year. The press and the exposure got the FFRF involved. Not only that, but the Menorah issue was cited as factor when the city council of Monterey, our sister city insisted that the Catholic Church be prepared to pay the legal fees for an antipated lawsuit to re-erect a vandalized cross on public land. The church stood down, and decided to erect it on private property.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A reminder that the rule here is "play nice". Don't make me go blue on anybody, please. My supper's almost ready.

[maiforpeace]

A reminder that the rule here is "play nice". Don't make me go blue on anybody, please. My supper's almost ready.

Well, exhale then.

[Gurdur]

That's why it's an open letter, if you don't agree, don't sign, pretty simple really.

I disagree. "speak for atheism"? How the fuck does one do that?

I think you're just arguing for the sake of it really.

Well, you're wrong. I don't care for other people "speaking" for me. That letter is badly worded.

No-one is speaking for you, so either show how anyone was, or give up the claim. As for your claim of poor wording, I think most disagree with you there. Majority opinion tends to rule on matters like this.

A reminder that the rule here is "play nice". Don't make me go blue on anybody, please. My supper's almost ready.

In that case, you could help by making a considered argument, and not merely denunciations. No-one ever claimed to speak for you. Your claims were poorly worded.