Here's Why I Dislike Religion

[QuarkyGideon]

Hello folks,



"Baltimore prosecutors: Cult leader, followers watched as 1-year-old boy 'wasted away'"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=9914570

I hate it when kids collide with religions, it's demeaning and vile. Not to mention that this horrid stuff happens.

It really makes me want to drive home this point:

[statichaos]

Hello folks,



"Baltimore prosecutors: Cult leader, followers watched as 1-year-old boy 'wasted away'"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=9914570

I hate it when kids collide with religions, it's demeaning and vile. Not to mention that this horrid stuff happens.

It really makes me want to drive home this point:

How utterly horrifying. I"m glad that these people are meeting some sort of justice, though I can't imagine what could happen to them that would make up for what they did to that child.

Having said that, I can't blame "religion" for that any more than I can blame The Beatles for what Charles Manson's followers did.

[duckcake]

How utterly horrifying. I"m glad that these people are meeting some sort of justice, though I can't imagine what could happen to them that would make up for what they did to that child.

Having said that, I can't blame "religion" for that any more than I can blame The Beatles for what Charles Manson's followers did.

Why can't religion be blamed? The Beatles weren't trying to lead a cult or indoctrinate people; this cult, er, was. The linked article itself makes mention of the mother joining because she wanted to become a Christian:

Ramkissoon, then a teenage single mother, joined the cult because she wanted to become a Christian and was told she wouldn't have to work or go to school, Drake said.

So I guess I'm just curious why this can't be considered a case of some of the more dangerous impacts of religion?

[feign_ignorence]

I love that ad by the way; awesome.

[statichaos]

How utterly horrifying. I"m glad that these people are meeting some sort of justice, though I can't imagine what could happen to them that would make up for what they did to that child.

Having said that, I can't blame "religion" for that any more than I can blame The Beatles for what Charles Manson's followers did.

Why can't religion be blamed? The Beatles weren't trying to lead a cult or indoctrinate people; this cult, er, was. The linked article itself makes mention of the mother joining because she wanted to become a Christian:

Ramkissoon, then a teenage single mother, joined the cult because she wanted to become a Christian and was told she wouldn't have to work or go to school, Drake said.

So I guess I'm just curious why this can't be considered a case of some of the more dangerous impacts of religion?

This cult can be blamed. Perhaps a better analogy would be blaming "government" for the holocaust rather than "the Nazi government". Seeing this and saying "I blame religion" is a bit too broad a stroke for me.

[MissingNo.]

This cult can be blamed. Perhaps a better analogy would be blaming "government" for the holocaust rather than "the Nazi government". Seeing this and saying "I blame religion" is a bit too broad a stroke for me.

Religion places you in a certain mindset where belief despite evidence to the contrary is a virtue and self-sacrifice (or the sacrifice of another) is natural extent of that as it's a testament to the strength of one's belief. I think a better analogy would be blaming authoritarian dictatorships for the the Nazi government. They can be fairly benign (e.g. Singapore) but they create a mindset and an environment which is far more likely to have highly negative consequences.

[statichaos]

This cult can be blamed. Perhaps a better analogy would be blaming "government" for the holocaust rather than "the Nazi government". Seeing this and saying "I blame religion" is a bit too broad a stroke for me.

Religion places you in a certain mindset where belief despite evidence to the contrary is a virtue and self-sacrifice (or the sacrifice of another) is natural extent of that as it's a testament to the strength of one's belief. I think a better analogy would be blaming authoritarian dictatorships for the the Nazi government. They can be fairly benign (e.g. Singapore) but they create a mindset and an environment which is far more likely to have highly negative consequences.

Still too broad a brush for me. While it's true that many denominations of all sorts of religions (Christian and non-Christian) can certainly lead to that mindset, there's a number of liberal religious traditions both theistic and non-theistic that don't require one to leave one's intelligence at the door.

[MissingNo.]

This cult can be blamed. Perhaps a better analogy would be blaming "government" for the holocaust rather than "the Nazi government". Seeing this and saying "I blame religion" is a bit too broad a stroke for me.

Religion places you in a certain mindset where belief despite evidence to the contrary is a virtue and self-sacrifice (or the sacrifice of another) is natural extent of that as it's a testament to the strength of one's belief. I think a better analogy would be blaming authoritarian dictatorships for the the Nazi government. They can be fairly benign (e.g. Singapore) but they create a mindset and an environment which is far more likely to have highly negative consequences.

Still too broad a brush for me. While it's true that many denominations of all sorts of religions (Christian and non-Christian) can certainly lead to that mindset, there's a number of liberal religious traditions both theistic and non-theistic that don't require one to leave one's intelligence at the door.

You're right, particularly the Eastern ones. They're still largely a load of bull but they don't create that intellectually stinted atmosphere to which I was referring. I suppose what I wrote primarily applies to the Abrahamic religions. Do we know if this religious cult was a derivative of one? Most religious cults like these seem to be Christian cults and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this one is as well. I don't want to make false assumptions, though.

[statichaos]

Considering the allegation that the initial motivation was over the child refusing to say "amen" and some other Christian ritualistic trappings and references, I assume that it was an offshot of some sort.

On the other hand, I can't even fault Abrahamic religions for this, as I can't picture the Methodists up the street, or the UCC down the block doing something like this.

My own faith is technically Abrahamic, though people don't usually categorize Unitarian Universalists that way. We certainly wouldn't do such a thing. I think that the biggest scandals that we have revolve around whether or not there are sufficient vegetarian options at the post-service brunch, and whether or not the coffee is fair trade.

[Bolero]

The whole concept of religion involves indoctrination with superstitious lies in the guise of absolute truths. That, in itself, is an immoral thing to do to a child. The extended extreme abuses may not necessarily follow, but the act of enslaving a young mind is something abhorent.

Call yourself whatever you want, point to all the nice practices of your particular brand of supernatural worship, and emphasise your harmlessness as much as you like, but children in the care of theists are in danger of far more than physical abuse.

[statichaos]

The whole concept of religion involves indoctrination with superstitious lies in the guise of absolute truths. That, in itself, is an immoral thing to do to a child. The extended extreme abuses may not necessarily follow, but the act of enslaving a young mind is something abhorent.

Call yourself whatever you want, point to all the nice practices of your particular brand of supernatural worship, and emphasise your harmlessness as much as you like, but children in the care of theists are in danger of far more than physical abuse.

You're obviously unfamiliar with Unitarian Universalism. I wouldn't call it a superior religion, necessarily (though it does fit my personal belief system), but we don't indocrinate children in anything more serious than the importance of recycling and the need to treat others with respect.

[Bolero]

My own faith is technically Abrahamic, though people don't usually categorize Unitarian Universalists that way.

Oh, I'm sorry. I suppose I was confused by the above quote. In particular the use of the word "faith". That would tend to imply a theistic bent....

[MissingNo.]

Well, Unitarian Universalism would probably fall under the rare benign category. Plus Unitarian Universalism is about as far from the actual doctrines of Christianity as one can get (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm sure you know more about what you believe than I do). Like I said, it's a problem of creating a culture where faith is a virtue.

[Chinaski]

I wouldn't actually consider UU a religion. No set beliefs, no doctrines, no objective standard to be held to... It's like a bunch of de facto atheists got together and said "I really like the Church socials, can we keep having them without the bullshit?"

[MissingNo.]

I wouldn't actually consider UU a religion. No set beliefs, no doctrines, no objective standard to be held to... It's like a bunch of de facto atheists got together and said "I really like the Church socials, can we keep having them without the bullshit?"

That's what I thought UU was about as well. By the way, are you a member of Secret Cinema? I know Chinaski is Bukowski reference so there could be multiple Chinaskis on the web but it doesn't hurt to ask.