A belief about death

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Dworkin
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A belief about death

Post by Dworkin » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:02 am

Folks,

Do you have a belief about death?

After decades of reading philosophy and theology books I’ve had a stab at clearing my mind on the subject. This is it:

‘There are no words, written or spoken, that can enlighten us to the passage from this world’.

I can’t justify this belief, but it is genuinely what I believe on the subject.

What’s yours?

D.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:15 am

I've expounded on my theory of consciousness/self/etc here before. The tl;dr version is that at the very least we die every night when we go to sleep, and more likely die millions of times a day in between moments of discrete awareness processing. So the fact that we die at the end of our biological life shouldn't itself be something that causes us unease. If we look at it like this, then the thing that has the greatest potential to cause unease is that we won't wake up after that particular death. But if you consider what actually happens when we wake up from sleep, then we shouldn't even fear not waking up. When we wake up after sleep, it is like a new birth. A potentially different self, for a split second. The only reason we have a sense of the same self after waking up is that we construct it from the memories of the selves that existed on the previous days of our biological life. The "you" from yesterday that hoped (s)he would wake up from sleep is gone. So basically we have a blank slate on the Plank-second that we wake up, and then essentially make a copy of yesterday's self by recalling its memories. So what? you might say. Well imagine instead of the same biological human reconstructing your self from the previous day, that a different biological human, or indeed a machine, assumed your self from the previous day. Would you be as comfortable going to sleep then? Instinctively most people will say no. But the process is exactly the same. The mind is what makes us a "self", not the body. And then bring this back to biological death. Imagine just before we suffered our final (biological) death that we are able to upload an exact copy of our mind to a computer, which will, upon our biological death, copy it over to a robot that will, upon being switched on, believe it is you. This is no different to going to sleep each night. Yet most people would fear this result just as much as the same result but without the uploading and then copying of your mind.

The moral of this story is that you should panic each night before going to sleep. :prof:











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Re: A belief about death

Post by rainbow » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:46 am

The main thing about death is that you are dead after.

WTF is so difficult about that?
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Re: A belief about death

Post by Rum » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:49 am

I have fainted a couple of times in my life. I've al;so been in total anaesthetic twice. Losing consciousness while fainting is a bit scary but being put under isn't - to me anyway. The only real difference in terms of awareness is that when you die it doesn't come back. Its shit but there you go.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Hermit » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:55 am

Dworkin wrote:Do you have a belief about death?
Yes. If there is some form of life after death I have yet to see any evidence for it.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:00 pm

I believe death is the end of life.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:52 pm

I wouldn't know where to begin. :dunno:

--should this be in the philosophy section? Or is its being here in the religion section more than an accident? :hehe:

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Animavore » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:18 pm

Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:41 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:I wouldn't know where to begin. :dunno:

--should this be in the philosophy section? Or is its being here in the religion section more than an accident? :hehe:
Death is just death. Like thwacking a fly its dead. End of story.
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Re: A belief about death

Post by devogue » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:00 pm

pErvin wrote:I've expounded on my theory of consciousness/self/etc here before. The tl;dr version is that at the very least we die every night when we go to sleep, and more likely die millions of times a day in between moments of discrete awareness processing. So the fact that we die at the end of our biological life shouldn't itself be something that causes us unease. If we look at it like this, then the thing that has the greatest potential to cause unease is that we won't wake up after that particular death. But if you consider what actually happens when we wake up from sleep, then we shouldn't even fear not waking up. When we wake up after sleep, it is like a new birth. A potentially different self, for a split second. The only reason we have a sense of the same self after waking up is that we construct it from the memories of the selves that existed on the previous days of our biological life. The "you" from yesterday that hoped (s)he would wake up from sleep is gone. So basically we have a blank slate on the Plank-second that we wake up, and then essentially make a copy of yesterday's self by recalling its memories. So what? you might say. Well imagine instead of the same biological human reconstructing your self from the previous day, that a different biological human, or indeed a machine, assumed your self from the previous day. Would you be as comfortable going to sleep then? Instinctively most people will say no. But the process is exactly the same. The mind is what makes us a "self", not the body. And then bring this back to biological death. Imagine just before we suffered our final (biological) death that we are able to upload an exact copy of our mind to a computer, which will, upon our biological death, copy it over to a robot that will, upon being switched on, believe it is you. This is no different to going to sleep each night. Yet most people would fear this result just as much as the same result but without the uploading and then copying of your mind.

The moral of this story is that you should panic each night before going to sleep. :prof:











Disclaimer: I may have no fucking idea what I am talking about.
I like this; it sort of links in with the transporter "death" idea in Star Trek, the question about transporting the soul.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by JimC » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:11 am

I suppose I'll eventually get around to it, when I can be bothered... :tea:
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Re: A belief about death

Post by cronus » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:25 am

Some maps are better than other maps.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Dworkin » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:37 am

Rum wrote:I have fainted a couple of times in my life. I've al;so been in total anaesthetic twice. Losing consciousness while fainting is a bit scary but being put under isn't - to me anyway. The only real difference in terms of awareness is that when you die it doesn't come back. Its shit but there you go.
Rum,

Good point. I've had two bad motorcycle accidents in recent years. Concussion both times and complete memory loss. Thankfully, I have no memory of the events, just total blank. Nothing to fear there and of course I can continue riding without flashbacks!

D.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by Dworkin » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:43 am

pErvin wrote:I've expounded on my theory of consciousness/self/etc here before. The tl;dr version is that at the very least we die every night when we go to sleep, and more likely die millions of times a day in between moments of discrete awareness processing. So the fact that we die at the end of our biological life shouldn't itself be something that causes us unease. If we look at it like this, then the thing that has the greatest potential to cause unease is that we won't wake up after that particular death. But if you consider what actually happens when we wake up from sleep, then we shouldn't even fear not waking up. When we wake up after sleep, it is like a new birth. A potentially different self, for a split second. The only reason we have a sense of the same self after waking up is that we construct it from the memories of the selves that existed on the previous days of our biological life. The "you" from yesterday that hoped (s)he would wake up from sleep is gone. So basically we have a blank slate on the Plank-second that we wake up, and then essentially make a copy of yesterday's self by recalling its memories. So what? you might say. Well imagine instead of the same biological human reconstructing your self from the previous day, that a different biological human, or indeed a machine, assumed your self from the previous day. Would you be as comfortable going to sleep then? Instinctively most people will say no. But the process is exactly the same. The mind is what makes us a "self", not the body. And then bring this back to biological death. Imagine just before we suffered our final (biological) death that we are able to upload an exact copy of our mind to a computer, which will, upon our biological death, copy it over to a robot that will, upon being switched on, believe it is you. This is no different to going to sleep each night. Yet most people would fear this result just as much as the same result but without the uploading and then copying of your mind.

The moral of this story is that you should panic each night before going to sleep. :prof:

Disclaimer: I may have no fucking idea what I am talking about.
pErvyn,

Interesting stuff. Your post reminds me of Derek Parfit, ('Reasons and Persons'), who developed a similar theory coming out of Buddhist thinking.

D.

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Re: A belief about death

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:06 am

I recall that name from the past. I have a nagging suspicion it wasn't in a good light. I will wiki him later. But the idea for my view comes from a philosopher who I can't remember now, who envisaged the 'self' as analogous to a really long string of pearls with each pearl being one discreet moment of awareness. When I'm on the laptop later I'll see if I can find who it was.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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