Back to church

[pcCoder]

A friend has wanted me to go to church with her for a while now. Today I went for a bible study.

It started out with an opening song and a woman talking about how it feels sometimes like their freedoms are being taken away. Then they said a pledge to the U.S. flag and then one to another flag with a cross on it. After singing another song they then said another pledge to the bible.

The preacher spoke some about the exodus from Egypt and how shortly after being released they were complaining about their problems. He made a comparison of this to the Christian life and how after being saved some complain about how hard it is to live the Christian way and some may look back and think things were better, but, just like how Moses and his people had god with them as a cloud by day and fire by night, Christians also have god with them, that they have the truth in the bible, etc.

A comment was made by someone regarding the parting of the Red Sea. The preacher said that he has heard some people say it was not a sea but just a dried up lake, and while that was not true, that it would make the miracle even more miraculous for it to have drowned the pharaoh and his army. I found this interesting. To even consider accepting just for a thought that it was just a dried up lake would mean that crossing of the sea part was not true. Why then continue as if the drowning of the pharaoh and his army were true? Where are the chariots, weapons, and armor of this drowned army? Surely if this event happened, there should be some archaeological evidence left behind, and it would take a big army to bring back what the preacher says to be more than a million people.

Afterward there was food in the fellowship hall. Spaghetti and lasagna, neither which I am fond of but the lasagna was actually okay, drinks, and snacks.

The people were friendly, but I have had no change in my stance on the matter. I asked myself what would be different it were a difference religion, say Islam or Hindu. Would I not find the same thing; a leader preaching from their religious text(s) as if it was divine truth, a group of followers who believe what was being preached, who would believe just as strongly in their religion and the truth of their texts as any other religion? Why then should I consider this one to be true, when others have equally devout followers, religious texts, claims of revelations and personal experiences? How can I trust, if that is the right word, the value of any of them? Should I not be asking myself instead why I should believe any of them when they seem to be all of the same method and nothing actual to show for it that a follower of another would not also have and claim as theirs?

[roter-kaiser]

Well, that's the whole point of religion: pasta and lasagna. The whole god thing is just an ordeal you have to go with in order to be fed and meet friendly people.

[JimC]

In any religious service, the ability to creatively day-dream is a major asset...

[Feck]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

[Callan]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

The Hare Krishnas give good spice too!

[Rum]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

The Hare Krishnas give good spice too!

All veggie crap though.

[Pappa]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

The Hare Krishnas give good spice too!

When I lived in Newcastle I always wanted to go to their Sunday Love Feast... but for some reason I never got round to it.

[Callan]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

The Hare Krishnas give good spice too!

When I lived in Newcastle I always wanted to go to their Sunday Love Feast... but for some reason I never got round to it.

You have to put up with a bit of lecturing and chanting at you while you scoff your grub. But what do you want, for tasty and free?

[FBM]

Try a Sikh temple for a good curry

The Hare Krishnas give good spice too!

All veggie crap though.

Indeed. "no animals were harmed in the making of this meal", my ass. Then what's the point?

[Callan]

Ingrates.

[pcCoder]

Another aspect I found interesting was how even the simplest things they wanted to say as the lord gave to them. The preacher was saying while making the comparison of Christians living a hard life and the freed slaves, that many times they blame god or the preachers when it is really that sometimes just bad shit happens. You woke up and got ready to go to work, but heard a screech under the hood for a second and that was it. You look and see your alternator belt snapped. God did it? No, Preacher man did it? No. Devil did it? No. Sometimes stuff just happens that aren't always pleasant. But when it comes to the woman finding out that her kids would be able to go to the school she wanted them to go to instead of another that is farther away, the lord gave it to her she said. Why not simply 'shit happens' but this time it was favorable instead of unfavorable. It seems to me it could be likened to an emotional addition that simply prevents them, much like other addicts or people in positions that have become emotionally enslaved, much like even real-life relationships where as people fall in love they sometimes become blind to the problems of their relationships that outsiders can clearly see.

During the session, they move the children off to different areas one for the real young children and another for the older children. I guess they have to get them while they are young. Convince them early on that the bible is true, while they are at an age where they are more easily accepting of things told to them by authority figures and less likely to be aware of any questions or issues that should be asked so that as they get older, they stick with it and often don't notice the issues. I have once told my friend that I see no real difference between the methodologies of the major religions, holy text, leader, devout followers, personal experience, propaganda about outsiders/non-followers, raising them as young as possible into the religion, etc. They all seem the same on this account to me.

[odysseus]

Another aspect I found interesting was how even the simplest things they wanted to say as the lord gave to them. The preacher was saying while making the comparison of Christians living a hard life and the freed slaves, that many times they blame god or the preachers when it is really that sometimes just bad shit happens. You woke up and got ready to go to work, but heard a screech under the hood for a second and that was it. You look and see your alternator belt snapped. God did it? No, Preacher man did it? No. Devil did it? No. Sometimes stuff just happens that aren't always pleasant. But when it comes to the woman finding out that her kids would be able to go to the school she wanted them to go to instead of another that is farther away, the lord gave it to her she said. Why not simply 'shit happens' but this time it was favorable instead of unfavorable. It seems to me it could be likened to an emotional addition that simply prevents them, much like other addicts or people in positions that have become emotionally enslaved, much like even real-life relationships where as people fall in love they sometimes become blind to the problems of their relationships that outsiders can clearly see.

During the session, they move the children off to different areas one for the real young children and another for the older children. I guess they have to get them while they are young. Convince them early on that the bible is true, while they are at an age where they are more easily accepting of things told to them by authority figures and less likely to be aware of any questions or issues that should be asked so that as they get older, they stick with it and often don't notice the issues. I have once told my friend that I see no real difference between the methodologies of the major religions, holy text, leader, devout followers, personal experience, propaganda about outsiders/non-followers, raising them as young as possible into the religion, etc. They all seem the same on this account to me.

Not much difference between religion and Stockholm Syndrome much of the time....

[hiyymer]

When I read this stuff about indoctrination, I always think of the statistics about how often people change churches and sects (very often). So maybe they're all Christians, but does the particular dogma really matter at all? What are people looking for?

[Svartalf]

Does your friend put out? Nothing less could induce me to subject myself to that kind of crap.
BTW, what denom are you going to?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Does your friend put out? Nothing less could induce me to subject myself to that kind of crap.
BTW, what denom are you going to?

I read that as "demon" and was . Then I realised it wasn't actually funny and I was all

Funnily enough, I was at a Skeptics in the Pub meeting last night and the speaker went to bible camp, simply to hone his discussion skills with fundies. An application of "know thine enemy".