Death and acceptance

[Hitmanfan]

Hi, I'm quite new to the forum (thanks for all the greetings) and I'm enjoying the company of my fellow non believers, anyway; I was in hospital today receiving my weekly dose of chemotherapy, I got speaking to a lady who unfortunately is terminally ill and in her mid 40's early 50's, my situation is completely different, (I have a rare type of none malignant tumour, clinically treated as malignant due to it's invasive, aggressive and re-occuring nature).

It had me deep in thought and still does on whether I wanted the lady to believe if a god and an afterlife exist. I don't know what I would do or how to react and cope if I knew I only had a few months to live and that my treatment was only palliative. I always insist that people should believe in the truth and what is likely and can be proven to be real. How do you come to terms with the end of your being at such an early age, whilst not feeling your life has been completely fulfilled, there is so much more that she wants to do...... But know's she can't, how do we deal with this and can everybody be expected to accept that when it comes to death.... The end is literally the end.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I wrote this about 2.5 hours ago, over at atheistforums.com

What was the meaning of your life, what did you live for?

I follow the camping rule. When I go camping in a park or somebody's resort or such, I take away more trash than I bring. When I leave I cut firewood for the next person to use that spot, at least as much as I found waiting for me when I got there, more if the pile looks smallish.

I spent twenty years in the Navy, nearly getting killed several times, with years of rehab total. I've taught college students about history, with suggestions on how to avoid repeating it. I have helped put millions of pages of historical documents online, for my sites and as "unofficial" host for a few branches of the US military.

And today I got to spent the morning in company with 35 wolves, who paid me for my work with their voices.

Dum vivimus vivamus!

[FBM]

After I'd meditated on it long enough, I realized that the fact that life, as good as it is, will end is something of a relief. For one thing, you can't stop ageing. Look around at the people who are just 100. Would you want to be alive with a 200-yr-old body? Another relief is the perception that, no matter how bad we fuck up, we just don't have the power to fuck things up too bad. We don't have the power to change the laws of nature, to save the planet from the death of the sun, etc. There's something liberating about the deep realization that you're going to die, for me anyway.

That said, I know some people would crumble mentally if they didn't believe in an afterlife. I don't begrudge them their fantasy; we've all got ours. As long as they don't go around killing people who don't share their particular fantasy, I say live and let life. A terminal patient? I'd even play along with their fantasy. If I go out that way, I'd hope someone had the compassion to do the same for me.

[Hitmanfan]

I wrote this about 2.5 hours ago, over at atheistforums.com

What was the meaning of your life, what did you live for?

I follow the camping rule. When I go camping in a park or somebody's resort or such, I take away more trash than I bring. When I leave I cut firewood for the next person to use that spot, at least as much as I found waiting for me when I got there, more if the pile looks smallish.

I spent twenty years in the Navy, nearly getting killed several times, with years of rehab total. I've taught college students about history, with suggestions on how to avoid repeating it. I have helped put millions of pages of historical documents online, for my sites and as "unofficial" host for a few branches of the US military.

And today I got to spent the morning in company with 35 wolves, who paid me for my work with their voices.

Dum vivimus vivamus!

I think I get what you're saying, in this particular instance, the person only started treatment in March and doesn't have too long left, I at this point might just deceive myself and try worshipping christ so that I may get into the catholic version of heaven... Probably wouldn't work (as i'm too far gone when it comes to believing in a man made god), but I might be able to delude myself due to my fragile mental state.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I done a lot of harm in my time, especially when I was younger. But I think I'm on the plus side by now. Not worried about the hereafter, just want my life to be a benefit to the world instead of a liability.

[Hitmanfan]

After I'd meditated on it long enough, I realized that the fact that life, as good as it is, will end is something of a relief. For one thing, you can't stop ageing. Look around at the people who are just 100. Would you want to be alive with a 200-yr-old body? Another relief is the perception that, no matter how bad we fuck up, we just don't have the power to fuck things up too bad. We don't have the power to change the laws of nature, to save the planet from the death of the sun, etc. There's something liberating about the deep realization that you're going to die, for me anyway.

I think the problem is, most people don't question their belief system, I was shocked today when I brought the issue up with my Fiancee of 6 years that she was offended and said it was a personal belief and she believes whatever she wants. When people are told they have a terminal illness it's only really then that they are forced to question their belief

That said, I know some people would crumble mentally if they didn't believe in an afterlife. I don't begrudge them their fantasy; we've all got ours. As long as they don't go around killing people who don't share their particular fantasy, I say live and let life. A terminal patient? I'd even play along with their fantasy. If I go out that way, I'd hope someone had the compassion to do the same for me.

Well said, I hope everyone shows the same compassion.

[laklak]

I'm touched by these posts. Me, I just want to get laid a bit more.

[FBM]

Most of life is participation in others' fantasies, anyway, innit?

[laklak]

Shit, I mostly just participate in my own fantasies. I'd love to participate in some other person's fantasies, like maybe Brittany Spears. Yeah, that would do.

[Rum]

I think the prospect of an end to this body and 'thing' we call 'me' is abhorrent and really very difficult at any level to accept. It is contrary to the whole of what our biology is about - survival, thriving, reproducing. Deep down it is the opposite of what we think we are and it goes a long way to explaining why fantasies concerning afterlives of one sort or another have persisted throughout human history. For most people it is simply a terrifying prospect I think.

I suspect many of those who don't take comfort from belief in an afterlife or a kind and caring god just try to ignore the fact and put the prospect of their extinction as far out of their minds as they can. This is difficult too, given that we are all in a race car driving at 100 miles an hour towards the brick wall that is our own personal death.

As a younger person I had periods of obsessive thinking about death. No point in it of course, but I had periods when the realisation of the inevitable would creep into my mind accompanies by a deep sense of dread.

Then almost six years ago I contracted cancer. It was very scary and there was a chance it would kill me. Luckily I have the 'all clear' at the moment. However one of the 'good' things that came out of that experience was odd. I discovered that the real possibility of death did not frighten me much at all and that the anxiety I had experienced in the past appeared to be about something else altogether. It was really quite liberating and a relief. It is one of the few positive things I got from the whole episode.

Deep down nobody wants to die if they have an relatively healthy emotional outlook in my view. I think the best we can do is to take an attitude something like FBMs and be pragmatic. If we are lucky we find a means of accommodating it. It makes no difference if you do or don't though. There's no avoiding it.

[normal]

I like watching funny videos on youtube. I like cooking nice dinners for my family. I like getting gifts more than I like giving them away. I like sunny days, even when I have the choice to go out but stay in. I like relaxing and doing nothing, but I also like working out. One day I will die and not be able to do any of these things or think about them. I like the thought of that.

[Thinking Aloud]

I used to imagine that heaven was like a big, real-lifedeath "Google Earth" only on the scale of the cosmos, where I'd be able to view the past, the future, and anywhere/anytime in the universe at my leisure for the rest of eternity. And if heaven was constrained by time, then at least I'd get to see the future unfold (though I was pretty sure they'd have the past on record somewhere). It didn't matter if I never did A or B while I was alive, because there would be time enough later for that.

Now that I know there's only this lifetime to accomplish the things I want to do, and maybe to leave a positive mark in some form or other, it puts a different focus on things entirely.

It's almost the inverse of Pascal's Wager. You might as well live your life as if there is nothing afterwards, because if you do, either way you've lived your life to the fullest possible and lost nothing; if you don't, and there isn't an afterlife, you've lost everything.

I wouldn't want to be approaching death, hoping for an afterlife in which to make up for lost time, but with that little doubt in my mind that, actually, it might all just be made up.

[BrettA]

...how do we deal with this and can everybody be expected to accept that when it comes to death.... The end is literally the end.

I've never been indoctrinated otherwise, so for me personally to "accept" that "The end is literally the end" frankly sounds silly (I'm not meaning to sound flip here). I mean... it is! Now that doesn't likely help people who've been brainwashed to think otherwise, but I thought it was worth note.

Basically, there is no other alternative and thus it's not worth even a second thought - or a first serious one. It'd be like saying "can everybody be expected to accept that when it comes to life.... we can't fly." Well, yeah - 'cause we can't! It just ain't worth real thought, and that's even something that appeals, unlike endless boredom!

[FBM]

I can fly.

That's how I got to Korea.


OK, it was in a machine and I'm splitting hairs, but wtf else have I got to do atm.

[Ronja]

Thanks for the thread. It's been good to read.

When my head is clearer, I'll hopefully be able to take time to write about going through the issue of death with a four-year-old and a two-year-old, when our neighbor died eight years ago. The girls were very fond of him, so it was not an easy time.