Simple question # 5214 - explain Christ's sacrifice

[mindyourmind]

Anyone?

What, other than arguably a few days and a headache, did he lose or chip in? We often take the piss about this, but it is really important (in that "colour of Superman's undies" kind of way).

[Thinking Aloud]

What confers on substitution its redemptive value is not the material fact that an innocent person has suffered the chastisement deserved by the guilty and that justice has thus been in some way satisfied (in such a case one should speak rather of a grave injustice). The redemptive value comes instead from the fact that the innocent Jesus, out of pure love, entered into solidarity with the guilty and thus transformed their situation from within. When a catastrophic situation such as that caused by sin is taken upon oneself on behalf of sinners out of pure love, then that situation is no longer under the sign of opposition to God. On the contrary, it is under the sign of docility to the love which comes from God (cf. Gal 1:4), and therefore becomes a source of blessing (Gal 3:13-14). Christ, by offering himself "as a ransom for many," put into effect to the very ultimate his solidarity with man, with every man and with every sinner. The Apostle Paul indicates this when he writes, "The love of Christ impels us, once we have come to the conviction that one died for all; therefore, all have died" (2 Cor 5:14). Christ therefore is in solidarity with everyone in death, which is an effect of sin. But in him this solidarity was in no way the effect of sin; instead, it was a gratuitous act of the purest love. Love induced Christ to give his life, by accepting death on the cross. His solidarity with man in death consists in the fact that he not only died as every man dies, but that he died for every one. Thus this "substitution" signified the superabundance of love which overcomes every deficiency and insufficiency of human love, every negation and contrariety linked with human sin in every dimension "interior and historical" in which this sin has weighed on the relationship of man with God.

I may have copied that from somewhere.

[Bella Fortuna]

You've been reading my diary!

[Thinking Aloud]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

[mindyourmind]

What confers on substitution its redemptive value is not the material fact that an innocent person has suffered the chastisement deserved by the guilty and that justice has thus been in some way satisfied (in such a case one should speak rather of a grave injustice). The redemptive value comes instead from the fact that the innocent Jesus, out of pure love, entered into solidarity with the guilty and thus transformed their situation from within. When a catastrophic situation such as that caused by sin is taken upon oneself on behalf of sinners out of pure love, then that situation is no longer under the sign of opposition to God. On the contrary, it is under the sign of docility to the love which comes from God (cf. Gal 1:4), and therefore becomes a source of blessing (Gal 3:13-14). Christ, by offering himself "as a ransom for many," put into effect to the very ultimate his solidarity with man, with every man and with every sinner. The Apostle Paul indicates this when he writes, "The love of Christ impels us, once we have come to the conviction that one died for all; therefore, all have died" (2 Cor 5:14). Christ therefore is in solidarity with everyone in death, which is an effect of sin. But in him this solidarity was in no way the effect of sin; instead, it was a gratuitous act of the purest love. Love induced Christ to give his life, by accepting death on the cross. His solidarity with man in death consists in the fact that he not only died as every man dies, but that he died for every one. Thus this "substitution" signified the superabundance of love which overcomes every deficiency and insufficiency of human love, every negation and contrariety linked with human sin in every dimension "interior and historical" in which this sin has weighed on the relationship of man with God.

I may have copied that from somewhere.

Oh. I see. But all of that has to do with the redemptive value of what Jebus did. What the fuck did he suffer or sacrifice !!

[Thinking Aloud]

Oh. I see. But all of that has to do with the redemptive value of what Jebus did. What the fuck did he suffer or sacrifice !!

I dunno. I didn't actually read it.

Maybe the next paragraph will answer ... um ... something.

(I'll pass the on to the late author. )

[mindyourmind]

Oh. I see. But all of that has to do with the redemptive value of what Jebus did. What the fuck did he suffer or sacrifice !!

I dunno. I didn't actually read it.

Maybe the next paragraph will answer ... um ... something.

(I'll pass the on to the late author. )

I think I just had an epifanwoo, or what are those things called? I think I get it. Jebus suffered by becoming a monumental twat that people would laugh at centuries after his "sacrifice", and in that way he offered himself to be laughed at so that we need not be laughed at?

[Bella Fortuna]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

If you post a censored one there's only about five words to read.

[cowiz]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

If you post a censored one there's only about five words to read.

Dear diary, today I put xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx up my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which made me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vagina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[AshtonBlack]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

If you post a censored one there's only about five words to read.

Dear diary, today I put xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx up my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which made me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vagina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Twat

[Thinking Aloud]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

If you post a censored one there's only about five words to read.

Dear diary, today I put xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx up my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which made me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vagina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We're discussing Bella's diary, Pawiz, not yours.

[Thinking Aloud]

Oh. I see. But all of that has to do with the redemptive value of what Jebus did. What the fuck did he suffer or sacrifice !!

I dunno. I didn't actually read it.

Maybe the next paragraph will answer ... um ... something.

(I'll pass the on to the late author. )

I think I just had an epifanwoo, or what are those things called? I think I get it. Jebus suffered by becoming a monumental twat that people would laugh at centuries after his "sacrifice", and in that way he offered himself to be laughed at so that we need not be laughed at?

That's probably it.

I've just spent five unproductive minutes searching for answers to the OP. Basically the standard theist response is, "You clearly don't understand Christianity, and if you'd been crucified you'd know what he sacrificed."

[Bella Fortuna]

You've been reading my diary!

I posted that in NSFW.

If you post a censored one there's only about five words to read.

Dear diary, today I put xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx up my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which made me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vagina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We're discussing Bella's diary, Pawiz, not yours.

Believe me, vaginas play no role in pawiz's diary.

[Thinking Aloud]

Dear diary, today I put xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx up my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which made me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx so I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vagina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We're discussing Bella's diary, Pawiz, not yours.

Believe me, vaginas play no role in pawiz's diary.

He can dream, surely?

[klr]

What confers on substitution its redemptive value is not the material fact that an innocent person has suffered the chastisement deserved by the guilty and that justice has thus been in some way satisfied (in such a case one should speak rather of a grave injustice). The redemptive value comes instead from the fact that the innocent Jesus, out of pure love, entered into solidarity with the guilty and thus transformed their situation from within. When a catastrophic situation such as that caused by sin is taken upon oneself on behalf of sinners out of pure love, then that situation is no longer under the sign of opposition to God. On the contrary, it is under the sign of docility to the love which comes from God (cf. Gal 1:4), and therefore becomes a source of blessing (Gal 3:13-14). Christ, by offering himself "as a ransom for many," put into effect to the very ultimate his solidarity with man, with every man and with every sinner. The Apostle Paul indicates this when he writes, "The love of Christ impels us, once we have come to the conviction that one died for all; therefore, all have died" (2 Cor 5:14). Christ therefore is in solidarity with everyone in death, which is an effect of sin. But in him this solidarity was in no way the effect of sin; instead, it was a gratuitous act of the purest love. Love induced Christ to give his life, by accepting death on the cross. His solidarity with man in death consists in the fact that he not only died as every man dies, but that he died for every one. Thus this "substitution" signified the superabundance of love which overcomes every deficiency and insufficiency of human love, every negation and contrariety linked with human sin in every dimension "interior and historical" in which this sin has weighed on the relationship of man with God.

I may have copied that from somewhere.

If I attempt to read more than two sentences of that, I will surely turn into a zombie ...