But what if you're wrong...?

[Bolero]

...and I'm right? Hubby and I finished a recent argument about religion with him plaintively saying this (possibly as a segue into the subsequent "I love you and I don't want you to burn in hell for all eternity" makeout session).

Of course, I responded by pointing out that a "just in case" bet doesn't make up for a lack of evidence, and that belief can't be forced, but I was wondering ... I mean, have you ever had to respond to this? What did you say? Or what have you heard others say?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If I'm wrong and God wants me to go to Hell, I would want the same thing for Him.

[AshtonBlack]

Use the "Dawkins' Defence."

[Xamonas Chegwé]

...and I'm right? Hubby and I finished a recent argument about religion with him plaintively saying this (possibly as a segue into the subsequent "I love you and I don't want you to burn in hell for all eternity" makeout session).

Of course, I responded by pointing out that a "just in case" bet doesn't make up for a lack of evidence, and that belief can't be forced, but I was wondering ... I mean, have you ever had to respond to this? What did you say? Or what have you heard others say?

Sounds like Pascal's Wager to me. Counter with: What if you're wrong and the muslims are right? Or the sikhs are right? Or the scientologists are right? Or the hindus are right? Or the...

Do you see where that's going?

His argument applies to ALL religions, not just his. It also applies to all of the factions within his religion. To a RC, you have to be catholic to be saved - not any other kind of xtian.

That should send him off to bed scratching his head.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Possibly Proper Death Litany (The Agnostic's Prayer)

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to ensure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.

[virphen]

When it can be countered by a South Park sketch or a Rowan Atkinson clip, it can't be that strong an argument, can it?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Bolero]

When it can be countered by a South Park sketch or a Rowan Atkinson clip, it can't be that strong an argument, can it?

Sure, but we're talking about a man who doesn't want to be cremated because he wants his body intact for the apocalypse and his eventual resurrection, so strong arguments in this area are not his forte.

[Feck]

When it can be countered by a South Park sketch or a Rowan Atkinson clip, it can't be that strong an argument, can it?

Sure, but we're talking about a man who doesn't want to be cremated because he wants his body intact for the apocalypse and his eventual resurrection, so strong arguments in this area are not his forte.

As long as he doesn't have you building a pyramid in the back yard for him

[Bolero]

When it can be countered by a South Park sketch or a Rowan Atkinson clip, it can't be that strong an argument, can it?

Sure, but we're talking about a man who doesn't want to be cremated because he wants his body intact for the apocalypse and his eventual resurrection, so strong arguments in this area are not his forte.

As long as he doesn't have you building a pyramid in the back yard for him

He said it was a cubby-house for the kids!

[GoodSmeagol]

First time I heard this argument it was from a College Professor...
"If I am wrong, nothing bad happens, but if I am right blah blah blah.
Go fuck your self dumb ass teacher!
Alas, I was young, and did not have a good argument to counter with, so back into the closet I went till I found rd.net.

But yes, the answer has been given several times, WHAT IF YOUR WRONG...

[virphen]

So hubby doesn't think the rapture's going to come more than a week or so after his burial? Or does he think embalming fluid lasts for centuries?

[Bolero]

So hubby doesn't think the rapture's going to come more than a week or so after his burial? Or does he think embalming fluid lasts for centuries?

Like I said, strong arguments are not his forte. Blind faith, and a complete inability to see a logical, rational, well-supported argument when it's staring him in the face, on the other hand, he's really really good at.

[Lion IRC]

I'm not a fan of Pascal's Wager for a couple of reasons but it does come with a side order of better health / longevity.
Natural selection?

Also, Xamonas Chegwé, you are assuming that the merciful deity punishes people who merely got the name wrong and who had the intention of honoring God to the best of their understanding or their parents understanding etc, etc.

I have a lot of time for agnostics and people of little or no faith and I enjoy debating theology with other religionists.

But anti-theists really get my attention because so many of them rather arrogantly demand proof that their existence is not the consequence of a Higher Being's will and who (by theological reckoning) is NOT actually obliged to do anything.

I sat down once and spent 3 hours trying to explain to a cockroach who I was and how powerful I was and how much I knew about the other side of this planet called earth because I've seen it and how there is so much more to the universe than cockroaches can possibly imagine.

You know what?

That cockroach acted as though I wasn't even there. Maybe it was a pantheist or deist cockroach. Maybe it didn't "detect" me clearly enough.

Lion (IRC)

[rachelbean]

Lion, Did you seriously come over here to cut and paste shit you posted at rationalskepticism and pretend you are answering a call for advice? There is so much stupid in that post, but I don't want to contribute to the derail.

Bolero, I think you have it right to say you can't force belief. There is the "What if YOU'RE wrong, and one of the other many religions is right?" response as others have mentioned. For me, I just say "I guess that would suck, but I don't really consider it a possibility".