5 reasons atheism is irrational

Holy Crap!
Post Reply
User avatar
Theophilus
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:09 am
Contact:

5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Theophilus » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:40 pm

MOD EDIT: This is now an interesting discussion about some points raised by another poster.
thedistillers wrote:1) Human beings aspire to be happy. The logical consequence of atheism is despair and nihilism. If atheism is true, there is no reason to care about truth, or anything else, so even if God doesn't exist, it's more rational to believe and hope God exists, to live a happier life.

2) The universe had a beginning. It is irrational to believe a universe can start to exist without a cause, for ex nihilo nihil fit. Only what we call "God" can be the cause for the universe, for the cause of the universe has to be personal and immaterial. Therefore atheism is irrational.

3) You can only make sense of the universe if it behaves in a predictable way. If atheism is true, there is no rational reason to believe the universe will continue to behave in a predictable way. We cannot make sense of the world we live in if atheism is true. Therefore atheism is irrational.

4) There is no rational explanation for the Gospel accounts, unless Jesus really rose from the dead. Only God had the power to raise Jesus from the dead. Therefore God exists, and atheism is irrational.

5) Atheists can't even prove their position, using evidence and logic. Therefore atheism is irrational.
It may be prudent first to check what we mean by "rational". I've taken here the first definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Rational (adj): Having the faculty of reasoning; endowed with reason.

I would say that atheism is clearly based on reasoning. I find it an internally consistent world view, albeit one to which I no longer subscribe (due to a clash with subjective experience). I also find faith is reasonable and internally consistent, albeit partly depending on subjective experience (a view may be reasonable and subjective at the same time, so long as we acknowledge the subjective aspects).

I think there is a problem in saying atheism is irrational, as you are then forced to engage with a straw man rather than atheism as it actually is, which is clearly a reasoned position that is internally consistent.
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible" St. Thomas Aquinas

User avatar
Oster
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:52 am
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Oster » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:05 am

thedistillers wrote:1) Human beings aspire to be happy. The logical consequence of atheism is despair and nihilism. If atheism is true, there is no reason to care about truth, or anything else, so even if God doesn't exist, it's more rational to believe and hope God exists, to live a happier life.
Atheism is not having beliefs in deities. There are people who do not have belief in deities. Therefore, atheism is true.

Please show how you conclude "the logical consequence of atheism is despair and nihilism."

The fact atheists are willing to face the consequences of hell, question the nature and existence of God and/or eternal nothingness after death to find the truth should be proof to God-fearing theists that truth is vital to atheists.

It is not rational to believe and hope God exists, it is irrational fear of despair and nihilism.

thedistillers wrote:2) The universe had a beginning. It is irrational to believe a universe can start to exist without a cause, for ex nihilo nihil fit. Only what we call "God" can be the cause for the universe, for the cause of the universe has to be personal and immaterial. Therefore atheism is irrational.
Please show proof that the universe had a beginning.

Please who how you conclude a cause to the universe must be personal and immaterial.

Since atheists constantly say that there is no proof of a creator god, atheism is obviously rational. It is faith and belief which are irrational, since both require accepting something as true without or against evidence.
thedistillers wrote:3) You can only make sense of the universe if it behaves in a predictable way. If atheism is true, there is no rational reason to believe the universe will continue to behave in a predictable way. We cannot make sense of the world we live in if atheism is true. Therefore atheism is irrational.
Atheism is not having beliefs in deities. There are people who do not have belief in deities. Therefore, atheism is true.

Please point out what tenet of atheism states the universe does not behave in predictable ways.
thedistillers wrote:4) There is no rational explanation for the Gospel accounts, unless Jesus really rose from the dead. Only God had the power to raise Jesus from the dead. Therefore God exists, and atheism is irrational.
Unless the Gospels and resurrection were made up to fulfill the motives of the writers.

quote="thedistillers"]5) Atheists can't even prove their position, using evidence and logic. Therefore atheism is irrational.[/quote]

Please explain the position atheists are expected to prove. Also, prove the claim you make that God exists.

User avatar
Jack Rawlinson
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:48 pm
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Jack Rawlinson » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:21 am

I can't decide whether people like thedistillers, who clearly either do not read or choose to ignore the countless times rebuttals to his five easy pieces of stupidity have been posted, should be criticised more for their obdurate ignorance or their downright rudeness.

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23722
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:00 pm

Jack Rawlinson wrote:I can't decide whether people like thedistillers, who clearly either do not read or choose to ignore the countless times rebuttals to his five easy pieces of stupidity have been posted, should be criticised more for their obdurate ignorance or their downright rudeness.
I don't think we have to choose, let's excoriate them for both....
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Feck
.
.
Posts: 28391
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Feck » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:14 pm

Meh I don't mind being called irrational ,actually I don't most of the insults the god-bothers manage: wicked, evil, sinful etc.

Still It would be wrong to let them get away with their feeble attempts at insulting me and my friends .
:hoverdog: :hoverdog: :hoverdog: :hoverdog:
Give me the wine , I don't need the bread

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23722
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:21 pm

It looks like Mr Distillers has scuttled away from his "argument" as quickly as the chap who knocks over a Ming vase at the Museum....
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
MissingNo.
Cheese is christ
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:10 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by MissingNo. » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Awww, I'm actually a bit disappointed. Arguing with creationists is fun. It's kind of like dinner at your grandma's. It's not exactly stimulating or exciting. It's certainly not adventurous or sophisticated. You aren't going to get any new experiences out of it but there's a comforting pleasantness to the familiarity of it all. It's been a while since I've had one and I'm starting to miss it.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:30 pm

heyzeus wrote:Awww, I'm actually a bit disappointed. Arguing with creationists is fun. It's kind of like dinner at your grandma's. It's not exactly stimulating or exciting. It's certainly not adventurous or sophisticated. You aren't going to get any new experiences out of it but there's a comforting pleasantness to the familiarity of it all. It's been a while since I've had one and I'm starting to miss it.
Arguing with creationists is like house-training a puppy. Lots of pissing and whining, and some of them never get the idea.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
MissingNo.
Cheese is christ
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:10 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by MissingNo. » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:31 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
heyzeus wrote:Awww, I'm actually a bit disappointed. Arguing with creationists is fun. It's kind of like dinner at your grandma's. It's not exactly stimulating or exciting. It's certainly not adventurous or sophisticated. You aren't going to get any new experiences out of it but there's a comforting pleasantness to the familiarity of it all. It's been a while since I've had one and I'm starting to miss it.
Arguing with creationists is like house-training a puppy. Lots of pissing and whining, and some of them never get the idea.
So can we say it's like house-training a puppy while eating dinner at your grandma's?

User avatar
Valden
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:12 pm
About me: Once upon a time...
Location: Peyton, Colorado, U.S
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Valden » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:18 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:It looks like Mr Distillers has scuttled away from his "argument" as quickly as the chap who knocks over a Ming vase at the Museum....
He's moved to RS. He's not getting much luck there either. :lol:

User avatar
Feck
.
.
Posts: 28391
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Feck » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:21 pm

Valden wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:It looks like Mr Distillers has scuttled away from his "argument" as quickly as the chap who knocks over a Ming vase at the Museum....
He's moved to RS. He's not getting much luck there either. :lol:
Please tell him to get back here and answer some questions ..
:hoverdog: :hoverdog: :hoverdog: :hoverdog:
Give me the wine , I don't need the bread

User avatar
Pappa
Non-Practicing Anarchist
Non-Practicing Anarchist
Posts: 56474
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:42 am
About me: I am sacrificing a turnip as I type.
Location: Le sud du Pays de Galles.
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by Pappa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:24 pm

MrFungus420 wrote:I have seen no evidence to support the claims of a god existing. Without supporting evidence, I do not accept those claims as valid.
The flying spaghetti monster exists. I have a book which proves it.
For information on ways to help support Rationalia financially, see our funding page.


When the aliens do come, everything we once thought was cool will then make us ashamed.

User avatar
normal
!
!
Posts: 9071
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:23 pm
About me: meh
Location: North, and then some
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by normal » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:26 pm

No, no, no. One serious answer and then just derails.

Secret ninja derailer team armed with bacon stars and cheese swords are standing by wearing fake boobs. Attack!
Image
Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   -Douglas Adams

User avatar
normal
!
!
Posts: 9071
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:23 pm
About me: meh
Location: North, and then some
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by normal » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:31 pm

Maybe NSFW
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Image
Image
Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   -Douglas Adams

User avatar
macdoc
Troll Hunter extraordinaire
Posts: 3449
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Planet Earth on slow boil
Contact:

Re: 5 reasons atheism is irrational

Post by macdoc » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:53 pm

I thought most sane people got by this shite around puberty.... :doh:
I don't give a ratz ass about R Dawkins any further...support your local mods. dawkins debacle survivor.
:pirates: rule..Image .Image .ImageImage two suspensions - two trolls banned...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests