Scientific Proof Of God

[Rum]

The atmosphere in your group of college friends would, I suspect, have been rather different with a Mr SU in amongst you. LOL!

[superuniverse]

I'm posting movies to show what is going to happen to atheists... They are not open to debate....

and how the fork do you know those videos are truthful and correct, they are but human creations and can't properly render a reality no living man has ever experienced.
plus, by publishing them, you de facto endorse them and can be called to answer for your support of this or that content...

an example, your recent video about that crazy lady who ranted about the Japanese earthquake... do you endorse that, because there have recently been nasty eathquakes in Italy, which still is one of the more devout Western states as well as being the capital of catholicism... what do you have to say to that, why would god punish a country where he's still believed in?

I am saying she is the BEST argument atheists have for not believing in God. And that is all.

[Forty Two]

let him continue... he has no clue what is going on here... makes it more interesting

I am the one with a clue.

[Scot Dutchy]

Rum

Just think: Do I have in the general sense of things any importance in this universe or any other? What you personally feel has nothing to do with your existence. If the Earth blows up tomorrow who will notice? It will be another shock wave in the galaxy. I have no illusions about the worth of my life which is a major problem for theists. Were are as important as an microbe on Mars.

[Rum]

I'm not arguing the sense of disputing or trying to win a debate.

These are thorny issues. When someone asks if X is important, what does that mean? Is importance a feature of X outside of the mind of an observer? Is there an "objective" importance, that is different from the subjective viewpoint of an observer? Is importance importance regardless of who is opining, or is importance only relevant if it is importance "to" someone?

I think when Dutchy is saying the universe is not important or the universes are not important, he's not likely referring to what one human being's opinion is of the particular universe in question. I suspect he's talking about some "greater" overarching importance which he is saying does not exist.

The theist thinks that such an "importance" exists, because they assign as the "buck stops here" overarching viewpoint to god. God says what is important. God makes even you and me "important" because we are key cogs in the wheels of God's divine plans. They like that. They view a universe without that to be "meaningless" and "devoid of purpose" and by extension, sad, lonely and bad.

I'm not really arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm discussing for the sake of discussing. A thread like this is as close as I get these days to sitting around a room with a bunch of friends in college passing a joint and saying..."wait wait wait.... what if the universe was really beer bottle shaped...?"

"whoooooaaahhhh...." [exhale]

I started a thread in the serious discussion section, but I couldn't even come up with the right question. That seems to me to be rather important when deciding what one is actually discussing. Existentialism and the transitory nature of experience when attributing 'importance', consciousness and our perception of the universe - does it bring the universe into being in some way? Why is family important but the collisions of galaxies not so much?

Anyway I deleted it before I posted it.

[Svartalf]

bah, when I was 7 I thought I had a prayer answered... now I know it was because the activity of praying calmed me down and let my sick body take care of itself without the stress... no, it was not a minor micale, it was just the end of a bout of asthma... now, I can't understand what the lady in the video says because I don't have good earphones and I'm half deaf, but she sure is a good argument for those atheists who liken religion to sheer insanity, and there are enough morons like her that her case is representative of a class of religious folk...

but the best argument for god not existing? no

all I know for sure if that if there is a god, it's evil, if there's none, life is cruel.

[Forty Two]

I am saying she is the BEST argument atheists have for not believing in God. And that is all.

I think the best argument for not believing in a god is that the arguments for any particular god are weak and the evidence for a god is weaker still.

Every reason to believe in a god offered by someone trying to explain why I should believe boil down to wish-thinking, preferances as to how a universe ought to be, or moral judgments suggesting that there would be a bad moral outcome if god did not exist (therefore he must), that kind of thing. All evidence offered is subjective, vague, imprecise, not verifiable, not repeatable, and not testable. And, the definitions of a god offered are typically unfalsifiable (he exists outside of time, outside of space, outside of this universe, that kind of thing).

I've also been offered no concrete reason why my belief in him matters. If there is a god, it exists regardless of my opinion on the topic. The notion that our beliefs are crucial seems to me to come from a human tendency to believe in the supernatural and to think that what we say or believe will or can come true. It's like when we say something bad - like speaking of the Devil - and the superstition is that he will appear. Our words have magical power. What we believe has power. However, what we believe doesn't control the reality of what exists in the universe. And if there is a god who judges my moral worth on whether I have drawn the right conclusion and believed in him based on what I've seen, or had faith and believed in him despite what I've seen, then I'm not sure what kind of god that is. What kind of god needs me to believe in him? I could see a deity wanting me to behave a certain way and treat others and the planet a certain way, or the like, but to want me, faced with a dearth of convincing evidence, to just "believe" in him? Why?

[Rum]

I am saying she is the BEST argument atheists have for not believing in God. And that is all.

Just a parting comment. You don't need an argument for not believing in a god. Nobody used to until they were made to by their parents.

You do however need an argument to believe in one. As Christopher Hitchens, still my hero after all these years - put it so succinctly - 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence'.

So where's your 'scientific proof/evidence' bud?

[Svartalf]

will you dismiss my assertion that there is a person behind an electonic device posting under the alias rum? I have no evidence other than the posts.

[Forty Two]

Proof of God for me would be one night (make it a week) at the Waldorf Astoria Central Park, New York, with Jennifer Lawrence, Margot Robbie, Alice Eve, Scarlett Johanson, and Mila Kunis.

I will believe.

[Rum]

(Edit: In response to Svarty above but one)

Well it isn't an 'extraordinary claim' is it? Plus I know someone from one of the Ratz meets who met you in Paris!

Mind you Paris could well cease to exist when I'm not there...

[Svartalf]

but it mysteriously reappears everytime you come.

[Rum]

but it mysteriously reappears everytime you come.

That proves it. Solipsism is the way forward!

[superuniverse]

I am saying she is the BEST argument atheists have for not believing in God. And that is all.

Just a parting comment. You don't need an argument for not believing in a god. Nobody used to until they were made to by their parents.

You do however need an argument to believe in one. As Christopher Hitchens, still my hero after all these years - put it so succinctly - 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence'.

So where's your 'scientific proof/evidence' bud?

if you look really hard you might be able to see DOUBLE...


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[Rum]

So where's your scientific proof bud?