Fucking savages

[Hermit]

"The nation has become a magnet for Al Qaeda terrorists. "

You never said that.

"The puppet government is ineffective. "

You never said that, either.

Isn't ten years of failure enough? Or are you expecting some sort of miracle?"

And you never said that, either.

Look here. And look at the post below. It appears you sort of replied to it as well.

As for the rest of the rant, maybe we'll get around to discussing it after you have got around to addressing some bits you conveniently chose to ignore, such as these:

You asked me to back those assertions up, but have not produced a single piece of support for contrary ones yourself. While I wait for you to start, let me provide you with these two snippets:

Two years ago, General Stanley McChrystal, commander of the US forces in Afghanistan, wrote a report addressed to the US secretary of Defence, Robert Gates. Included in the introduction was this: "Although considerable effort and sacrifice have resulted in some progress, many indicators suggest that the overall situation is deteriorating. We face not only a resilient and growing insurgency; there is also a crisis of confidence among Afghans -- in both their government and the international community that undermines our credibility..." General McChrystal then proceeds to propose a change in strategy - to capture the hearts and minds of the population.

Has it worked? Let's fast forward to a BBC article last updated on the 4th of October 2011: "the [Taliban] came back with a vengeance and violence has risen steadily to levels not seen since the fall of the Taliban in 2001."

[Schneibster]

There is no but. You got the shit or you don't. You don't.

ETA: I'm willing to entertain discussion, and I'd love to know your ideas. But as long as you BOTH:
try to stuff it up my nose, and
don't have any evidence,
it's boring.

[Schneibster]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15445047
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15447821

since apparently you've been hiding in a box for a month. There's an ISI-trained suicide bomber and a Taliban commander, in a BBC documentary, plus a nice article to review. When reality has penetrated your shield, let me know.

Sorry for assuming you'd actually paid attention to the news before you started pontificating on how it all is.

[Hermit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15445047
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15447821

since apparently you've been hiding in a box for a month. There's an ISI-trained suicide bomber and a Taliban commander, in a BBC documentary, plus a nice article to review. When reality has penetrated your shield, let me know.

Sorry for assuming you'd actually paid attention to the news before you started pontificating on how it all is.

Ahem.

[apophenia]

Reminds me of a comedy bit about Africa. Instead of sending food to Africa, we should send Winnebagos so they can get the fuck outta there.

[Schneibster]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15445047
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15447821

since apparently you've been hiding in a box for a month. There's an ISI-trained suicide bomber and a Taliban commander, in a BBC documentary, plus a nice article to review. When reality has penetrated your shield, let me know.

Sorry for assuming you'd actually paid attention to the news before you started pontificating on how it all is.

Ahem.

That's not news.

[Schneibster]

By the way, worth noting that the opposition PTI party in Pakistan is now accusing the ISI of funding and commanding Taliban and al Qaeda and says it's a sign of corruption in the military. They appear to be starting to campaign on it.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/14/imran-sa ... istan.html
You'll likely have to CNP this one, apparently the forum software doesn't like backslashes: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg1_1

[Svartalf]

Like it's new that the taliban were a Pakistani creation aimed at sowing disorder and worse in their hated neighbor's territory?

[Schneibster]

Actually they started the Taliban providing safe haven for terrorists to make sure they had a ready supply of them to fuck with India with.

[Hermit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15445047
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15447821

since apparently you've been hiding in a box for a month. There's an ISI-trained suicide bomber and a Taliban commander, in a BBC documentary, plus a nice article to review. When reality has penetrated your shield, let me know.

Sorry for assuming you'd actually paid attention to the news before you started pontificating on how it all is.

Ahem.

That's not news.

Exactly.

[Svartalf]

Actually they started the Taliban providing safe haven for terrorists to make sure they had a ready supply of them to fuck with India with.

Not sure, from what I got in the early days (late 80s, early 90s), the functioned as militias, paramilitary groups, not terrorist cells, and they don't have a presence in Ind/pak disputed areas, like kashmir and Pundjab, but near exclusively in Norther Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Not to say that actual terrorists and al qaeda personnel did not come out of the very same madrassas, but while goals, doctrines and training might be close, the groups still were distinct, at least untiol the early 2000s, when the wave of pan muslim hatred that followed 9/11 got them all on the open season list and led the distinctions to be blurred.

[Schneibster]

Exactly.

So?

[Schneibster]

Actually they started the Taliban providing safe haven for terrorists to make sure they had a ready supply of them to fuck with India with.

Not sure, from what I got in the early days (late 80s, early 90s), the functioned as militias, paramilitary groups, not terrorist cells, and they don't have a presence in Ind/pak disputed areas, like kashmir and Pundjab, but near exclusively in Norther Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Errrr, Punjab? Disputed?

And the "early days" were when Pakistan was providing weapons to them to fight the Russians.

Not to say that actual terrorists and al qaeda personnel did not come out of the very same madrassas, but while goals, doctrines and training might be close, the groups still were distinct, at least untiol the early 2000s, when the wave of pan muslim hatred that followed 9/11 got them all on the open season list and led the distinctions to be blurred.

The Taliban provided safe haven for al Qaeda, and the ISI provided weapons, training, and money, in the decade immediately pre-9/11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeT

Some experts such as former French investigating magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguière and New America Foundation writer Stephen Tankel believe that Pakistan's main intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), continues to give LeT intelligence help and protection.

And they ain't the only ones, either.

[Hermit]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me. I provided the link to an earlier post of mine in order to indicate that I knew that before you even joined this forum.

The occupation of Afghanistan by its "liberators" - the bulk of which is provided by the USA - is likely to help prevent more women to come to their violent ends at the hands of Islamist fundies in that country. The report by general McChrystal and subsequent articles make it very clear that the situation in that country has been deteriorating ever since the initial success when the Taliban government was ousted. Just look at the 2010 survey conducted by the Asia Foundation, for instance. In 2007 it had to replace 2% of its sampling points due to security reasons. In 2008 it replaced 3%. In 2009 the percentage rose to 9% and in 2010 16% had to be relocated because it just was not safe to conduct surveys there. That is not what I call an improvement in security in Afghanistan.

[Schneibster]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?