Atheism isn't cause - secularism is! Discuss!

[Robert_S]

No, Atheists should have more important things to worry about than expressions of religion that harm no one and do not cause government to "establish" religion.

We'll decide what we should worry about.

Fine by me, but carping about "under God" or "In God We Trust" makes Atheist look like ignorant, intolerant, bigoted asses. If that's how you wish to appear to the vast majority of citizens, by all means go right ahead.

What if they were replaced with "under Allah" or "In Vishnu We Trust"?

In Marx we trust!
One nation under the dictatorship of he proletariat!


Just harmless expressions really. They wouldn't set a tone where one point of view was privileged over any others, would they?

[Ronja]

No, Atheists should have more important things to worry about than expressions of religion that harm no one and do not cause government to "establish" religion.

We'll decide what we should worry about.

Fine by me, but carping about "under God" or "In God We Trust" makes Atheist look like ignorant, intolerant, bigoted asses. If that's how you wish to appear to the vast majority of citizens, by all means go right ahead.

What if they were replaced with "under Allah" or "In Vishnu We Trust"?

In Marx we trust!
One nation under the dictatorship of he proletariat!


Just harmless expressions really. They wouldn't set a tone where one point of view was privileged over any others, would they?

. Zilla, Pappa and RobertS!

[Seth]

No, Atheists should have more important things to worry about than expressions of religion that harm no one and do not cause government to "establish" religion.

We'll decide what we should worry about.

Fine by me, but carping about "under God" or "In God We Trust" makes Atheist look like ignorant, intolerant, bigoted asses. If that's how you wish to appear to the vast majority of citizens, by all means go right ahead.

What if they were replaced with "under Allah" or "In Vishnu We Trust"?

Essentially that's what it says, since it doesn't specify which god it's referring to. This allows anyone to insert their own god whenever they like. Religious diversity, you see.

[hiyymer]

No, Atheists should have more important things to worry about than expressions of religion that harm no one and do not cause government to "establish" religion.

We'll decide what we should worry about.

Fine by me, but carping about "under God" or "In God We Trust" makes Atheist look like ignorant, intolerant, bigoted asses. If that's how you wish to appear to the vast majority of citizens, by all means go right ahead.

What if they were replaced with "under Allah" or "In Vishnu We Trust"?

Essentially that's what it says, since it doesn't specify which god it's referring to. This allows anyone to insert their own god whenever they like. Religious diversity, you see.

As long as you have one. So how is it not government sponsorship of theism, a particular kind of religion?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, Atheists should have more important things to worry about than expressions of religion that harm no one and do not cause government to "establish" religion.

We'll decide what we should worry about.

Fine by me, but carping about "under God" or "In God We Trust" makes Atheist look like ignorant, intolerant, bigoted asses. If that's how you wish to appear to the vast majority of citizens, by all means go right ahead.

What if they were replaced with "under Allah" or "In Vishnu We Trust"?

Essentially that's what it says, since it doesn't specify which god it's referring to. This allows anyone to insert their own god whenever they like. Religious diversity, you see.

Don't need a god. I'm too old to have imaginary friends.

[Feck]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

He can't, that's all he knows.

[Seth]

As long as you have one. So how is it not government sponsorship of theism, a particular kind of religion?

It's not an establishment of a state religion, it's (as the SCOTUS puts it) a recognition of the historical traditions of the United States as a nation of religious pluralism. The Establishment Clause says, quite simply, that "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." However much "In God We Trust" might trench upon some atheist's desire to be free of the trappings of religion in society, the Supreme Court doesn't seem to have a problem with it, so that's the law.

As I said, I'd prefer it be removed, but it's not all that important one way or another.

[Feck]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

He can't, that's all he knows.

'Are you or have you ever been a member of the communist party' the thing that gets me about right wing 'atheists' is you know that the reason they are atheists is they hate the concept of caring ,sharing or charity espoused by recent liberal Christians ... I get the idea that Seth has to edit out the 'Godless' word when he rants about liberal commie fag subversives before he hits submit .Honestly ! He would fit right in on Rapture Ready .

PS Oh christ It posted more rubbish Seth I think you could learn if you read Gallstones recent posts .

[Seth]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

You interpret it as referring to the Judeo-Christian god, but Thomas Jefferson himself made explicit reference to many other religions including the "hindoos" and "Moslems" in discussing the issue of church and state, and the upshot of the Founder's intent was not a nation where religion is absent or suppressed, but one where all religions are welcome and the rights of the people to worship as they will is protected. Religious pluralism.

In the context of the Founder's time, that generally meant some sort of theistic god-based belief system, because atheism was looked down upon rather severely, as demonstrated by the several states which forbade atheists from holding office right up until the application of the First Amendment to the states through the 14th Amendment in 1868. Note that in the 80 years prior, nobody had much problem prohibiting atheists from holding office as it was felt that someone who answered to no higher power than themselves could not be trusted to serve the people rather than his own interests. In an era of strong reliance on religion and the belief in eternal punishment for oath breakers, faith in God was seen as a hallmark of a trustworthy character.

[Seth]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

He can't, that's all he knows.

Let's see if the mods spank you for your personal attack. If they don't, then I'll have to do it myself...

[Seth]

Bollocks Seth ! it is understood by those words , which are totally in opposition to the founding of your nation, that they refer to the Judeo-Christian god .

You know it ,I know it ,so stop weaselling out of it .

He can't, that's all he knows.

'Are you or have you ever been a member of the communist party' the thing that gets me about right wing 'atheists' is you know that the reason they are atheists is they hate the concept of caring ,sharing or charity espoused by recent liberal Christians ... I get the idea that Seth has to edit out the 'Godless' word when he rants about liberal commie fag subversives before he hits submit .Honestly ! He would fit right in on Rapture Ready .

PS Oh christ It posted more rubbish Seth I think you could learn if you read Gallstones recent posts .

And this one. I'm about ready to flame-on here.

I didn't make up the SCOTUS cases. I'm merely explaining why it is that every time some atheist challenges "In God We Trust" they lose. You evidently are not able to figure out that I'm not in favor of the logo either, despite the fact that I've told you so several times quite explicitly.

If you can't refrain from personalizing the argument, then somebody's got to take you and Gawdzilla to task for presenting fuckwitted arguments.

[Feck]

And you think that is true do you ? Because the threat of hell fire was thought to be the only way of ensuring honesty ? You back up your claims that Merika is a secular democracy with the admission that it's NOT ? Yep seems I was right about you you are a closet theist about everything other than giving a shit about anyone else but you .. Honestly do you really think that adding a religious line to the pledge and stamping it on the money is not in anyway important ? how is it not important ? You answer you have given is that you would rather the religious subvert the truth on every child's tongue and in every person's pocket than than let those godless heathen commies talk to our kids . Seth it's not the 1950's the propaganda wasn't true . When you dig your bunker and stock it with more ammunition than food please make sure it doesn't have an internet connection ! Oh and read my sig

[Feck]

Oh sorry I may have missed some of your posts Seth (you are on ignore ) but remember your introductory post to this forum when you said we were not allowed to remind you of previous posts in different threads ? you see I misinterpreted that; I thought what you meant was that you are aware of the shit that dribbles out and were making your excuses ... Maybe you should stick to that Pretend you are a POE and if you wipe the foam of your chin we might not notice .

[Thinking Aloud]

This is a reminder for everyone to play nice please. Feck and Zilla - please avoid personal attacks.