Is American Atheism Evolving Towards A Cult?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The idiots that try to redefine atheism and secularism as a 'religion' or now, a 'cult', are exposing their own inadequacies. They already know that their own flavor of religion/cult (both are the same) is stupid, so they try to drag science down to the level of idiotic 'faith' where they can then attack it. It's a totally dishonest approach and should be discarded as a lie from the start.

But it's not a lie, it's an observable truth.

In your universe, maybe.

My universe, your universe, alla same.

Nope, yours has gods and shit.

[Seth]

The idiots that try to redefine atheism and secularism as a 'religion' or now, a 'cult', are exposing their own inadequacies. They already know that their own flavor of religion/cult (both are the same) is stupid, so they try to drag science down to the level of idiotic 'faith' where they can then attack it. It's a totally dishonest approach and should be discarded as a lie from the start.

But it's not a lie, it's an observable truth.

In your universe, maybe.

My universe, your universe, alla same.

Nope, yours has gods and shit.

Really? Well, that means you're not a atheist, since we inhabit the same universe.

[Gallstones]

• 

[amused]

Seth -

You're an advocate for individual responsibility. Cool. But you also insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything? Those two concepts seem at odds to me.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Really? Well, that means you're not a atheist, since we inhabit the same universe.

If your ideas were horses they'd have to be put down.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Seth -

You're an advocate for individual responsibility. Cool. But you also insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything? Those two concepts seem at odds to me.

"God" is just an excuse for believers.

[amused]

I'm asking Seth.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm asking Seth.

Okay, then. I'll just sit over here in the corner quietly. Wouldn't want to interrupt.

[Robert_S]

On a couple of occasions I've watched Dawkins, Pinker, Harris give presentations in front of audiences that are entirely sympathetic with their point of view, and I have to say there is little discernible difference between that and a fundamentalist style religious service. Everyone comes with a preconceived set of beliefs, there is a sermon where those beliefs are validated, the sermon includes disparaging references to other belief systems, and the audience gives enthusiastic support and approval regardless of the rationality of anything that is said. I would disagree with Seth that it has anything to do with either atheism or science. It's pure rationalism and scientism. It's not quite a cult, but it's quite ritualistic, with certain catch phrases and emotional buttons that tend to come up repeatedly.

How is that different from any other speaker on any other social issue? Guns, abortion, environmental issues, or anything where like minded people get together for information, community and support?

[MrJonno]

Seth -

You're an advocate for individual responsibility. Cool. But you also insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything? Those two concepts seem at odds to me.

What is the word we use if you are citizen of a country and but swear allegiance to another authority, oh I remember now treason

[Seth]

Seth -

You're an advocate for individual responsibility. Cool. But you also insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything? Those two concepts seem at odds to me.

Do I? I challenge you to find one single example of where I "insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything."

Go right ahead and look. Look here, look there, look at Ratskep or search the archive of RDF. Look anywhere you like.

I'll wait...

[Seth]

Seth -

You're an advocate for individual responsibility. Cool. But you also insist that there's a celestial dictator who controls everything? Those two concepts seem at odds to me.

What is the word we use if you are citizen of a country and but swear allegiance to another authority, oh I remember now treason

Depends on which country you're referring to. In the United States treason is very carefully defined as, being a citizen of the United States, levying war against the United States or giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States. It's defined that way precisely because the King of England considered anyone who did not swear religious fealty to the Church of England to be a traitor, and the Founders were expressly rejecting such authority and were opting for religious tolerance and diversity.

That being said, I also encourage you to search all you like for any instance where I "insist that there is a celestial dictator who controls everything." Have fun, write if you get work.

[MrJonno]

Depends on which country you're referring to. In the United States treason is very carefully defined as, being a citizen of the United States, levying war against the United States or giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States. It's defined that way precisely because the King of England considered anyone who did not swear religious fealty to the Church of England to be a traitor, and the Founders were expressly rejecting such authority and were opting for religious tolerance and diversity.

Plenty of people of all religions think god is at war with the US and act on that basis

[Seth]

Depends on which country you're referring to. In the United States treason is very carefully defined as, being a citizen of the United States, levying war against the United States or giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States. It's defined that way precisely because the King of England considered anyone who did not swear religious fealty to the Church of England to be a traitor, and the Founders were expressly rejecting such authority and were opting for religious tolerance and diversity.

Plenty of people of all religions think god is at war with the US and act on that basis

Yeah, so what? They're all fucked up, like most of Europe is. Not our fault that they are morons.

[hiyymer]

On a couple of occasions I've watched Dawkins, Pinker, Harris give presentations in front of audiences that are entirely sympathetic with their point of view, and I have to say there is little discernible difference between that and a fundamentalist style religious service. Everyone comes with a preconceived set of beliefs, there is a sermon where those beliefs are validated, the sermon includes disparaging references to other belief systems, and the audience gives enthusiastic support and approval regardless of the rationality of anything that is said. I would disagree with Seth that it has anything to do with either atheism or science. It's pure rationalism and scientism. It's not quite a cult, but it's quite ritualistic, with certain catch phrases and emotional buttons that tend to come up repeatedly.

How is that different from any other speaker on any other social issue? Guns, abortion, environmental issues, or anything where like minded people get together for information, community and support?

Because it's ideological.