The Militant Tendency Within Atheism/Secular Rationalism

[pErvinalia]

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... d#p1561650

[surreptitious57]

knowledge is a subset of belief

If knowledge is a subset of belief then all belief must by definition be true

Which would then make it impossible to believe anything which was false

So is every single thing that all human beings have ever and will ever believe in therefore true

So human beings who believe in God and human beings who do not believe in God are both right

Now since this is a logical fallacy and a rather obvious one too at that it invalidates your hypothesis

[Hermit]

knowledge is a subset of belief

If knowledge is a subset of belief then all belief must by definition be true

Which would then make it impossible to believe anything which was false

So is every single thing that all human beings have ever and will ever believe in therefore true

So human beings who believe in God and human beings who do not believe in God are both right

Now since this is a logical fallacy and a rather obvious one too at that it invalidates your hypothesis

While I disagree with the fungical view, I don't recall MrFungus claiming that knowledge equals truth.

[JimC]

knowledge is a subset of belief

If knowledge is a subset of belief then all belief must by definition be true

Which would then make it impossible to believe anything which was false

So is every single thing that all human beings have ever and will ever believe in therefore true

So human beings who believe in God and human beings who do not believe in God are both right

Now since this is a logical fallacy and a rather obvious one too at that it invalidates your hypothesis

While I disagree with the fungical view, I don't recall MrFungus claiming that knowledge equals truth.

I read that as fungicidal...

And thought, "well, I don't really agree with the chap, but I'm not quite fungicidal..."

[piscator]

Fungible debentures are still unsecured, psylli.

[Seth]

knowledge is a subset of belief

If knowledge is a subset of belief then all belief must by definition be true

Which would then make it impossible to believe anything which was false

So is every single thing that all human beings have ever and will ever believe in therefore true

So human beings who believe in God and human beings who do not believe in God are both right

Now since this is a logical fallacy and a rather obvious one too at that it invalidates your hypothesis

Incorrect. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

All knowledge requires belief, but not all belief requires knowledge.

[Svartalf]

Fungible debentures are still unsecured, psylli.

In plain English please?

[JimC]

Fungible debentures are still unsecured, psylli.

In plain English please?

He is calling me silly, which is simply silly...

[Seth]

Fungible debentures are still unsecured, psylli.

In plain English please?

"Be sure to clean and sterilize your dentures nightly, lest they fit loosely in your mouth due to fungus."

[piscator]

Incorrect. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

All knowledge requires belief, but not all belief requires knowledge.

What does bumping into something in the dark and only then realizing there's an obstacle require? Belief in what you've been told?

[Seth]

Incorrect. Knowledge is a subset of belief.

All knowledge requires belief, but not all belief requires knowledge.

What does bumping into something in the dark and only then realizing there's an obstacle require? Belief in what you've been told?

Belief that the obstacle exists and is not a figment of your imagination.

[Svartalf]

Knowledge, surety in a fact that has been observed and verified , is the antithesis of belief, which is being sure of something you have not had proof of.

The fact that the theoretic process of science treats some beliefs that are logically supported and have served to support verified predictions are treated as knowledge should not lead you to mistake the two, plus there's the fact that a theory is discarded as soon as facts disprove it, while it is useful so long as its predictions are factually verified, and so its premises can be provisionally be regarded as fact.

[Seth]

Knowledge, surety in a fact that has been observed and verified , is the antithesis of belief, which is being sure of something you have not had proof of.

Knowledge is indeed surety in a fact, but belief precedes knowledge in every instance.

The fact that the theoretic process of science treats some beliefs that are logically supported and have served to support verified predictions are treated as knowledge should not lead you to mistake the two, plus there's the fact that a theory is discarded as soon as facts disprove it, while it is useful so long as its predictions are factually verified, and so its premises can be provisionally be regarded as fact.

Belief: "I believe that the sun will rise in the East in the morning."

Knowledge: "My belief that the sun will rise in the East in the morning has been confirmed by the sun rising in the East this morning."

Belief: "I believe that between the planets and stars, outside of the gravitational influence of a mass, atmosphere capable of sustaining human life does not exist."

Knowledge: "Based on that belief, I sent several rockets up into the air that collected atmospheric samples at different altitudes and analyzed the samples. As a result of that analysis I have gained the knowledge that human-supporting atmosphere does indeed end at a particular altitude above the surface of the earth."

There is no knowledge without belief, for it is belief that triggers the quest for knowledge.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Atheism isn't militant and anyone who says it is should be put against a wall and shot.

[JimC]

Belief: "I believe that the sun will rise in the East in the morning."

Knowledge: "My belief that the sun will rise in the East in the morning has been confirmed by the sun rising in the East this morning."

Belief: "I believe that between the planets and stars, outside of the gravitational influence of a mass, atmosphere capable of sustaining human life does not exist."

Knowledge: "Based on that belief, I sent several rockets up into the air that collected atmospheric samples at different altitudes and analyzed the samples. As a result of that analysis I have gained the knowledge that human-supporting atmosphere does indeed end at a particular altitude above the surface of the earth."

There is no knowledge without belief, for it is belief that triggers the quest for knowledge.

All those beliefs are utterly different to religious beliefs, and illustrates that the word is used so widely it can almost mean anything. When used in the case of the likelihood of everyday phenomena such as a sunrise occurring, "I believe that..." means nothing except a rational estimate of probabilities based on past experience. When used as a scientific hypothesis, without direct knowledge, it is assumed that it remains only a hypothesis until clear evidence is accumulated.

When used in the context of belief in the supernatural, it is a faith statement based on emotion and conjecture, not everyday experience, and certainly not as a mere hypothesis, awaiting data...

The 2 uses of the word cannot be conflated without stretching the meaning of the word beyond reasonable limits.