Dawkins on Alien Rubbish

[Bella Fortuna]

I'll look forward with interest to Exi5 opening a school along the lines he thinks most beneficial, and we'll see what the outcome is.

[Exi5tentialist]

I'll look forward with interest to Exi5 opening a school along the lines he thinks most beneficial, and we'll see what the outcome is.

You mean a school where students are not indoctrinated to obey every single bloody word they hear from anyone in authority? Come on, that model of school management went out years ago, I don't know why Coito is so attached to it. I can assure you I won't be opening any schools along those lines any time soon, I wouldn't want to duplicate what's already out there.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Were you ever a teenager? Or were you assembled at your current apparent age?

[Exi5tentialist]

If you simply wish to point out a worthy aspiration for people of the present; to be responsible for their current actions, and to act with care and forethought, you could say so...

This philosophical excursion of yours is all very well, but I hardly think it follows from me suggesting that a wide variety of visiting speakers be invited into schools to talk about their specialism, that I want to recapture Religious Education from the past, as Charlou was suggesting. The past is the past: best leave it there so we can get on with our lives.

[Coito ergo sum]

WE OBEY!!!

What do you suggest? That 12 year old children come and go as they please - head to McDonalds during English class? Or, perhaps they just interrupt the teacher whenever they feel like it with fart noises and quotes from South Park?

No. I suggest a programme of visiting speakers, with question-and-answer sessions included.

Now stop being silly and get on with your work.

So, you are in favor of the students having to follow directions and not being permitted to say whatever they want, when they want? And, they need to follow teachers' instructions and keep quiet when told, and when the question-and-answer session starts, they can ask questions? Good - then we're in agreement.

Visiting speakers are fine. There is no need for them to proselytize religion, though. There is enough to learn in school without muddling it up with nonsense.

[Jason]

I'm in favour of students doing whatever they like, however, if they fail their exams they are to be sent to the soylent green processing plants before the next semester begins. Any students they distract and who also fail their exams will not be shown leniency - they to will become a green edible wafer. These wafers are to be served in the school cafeterias. So it is that I propose to kill three birds with one stone: Freedom of choice for the students is allowed, Malnutrition and the cost of schools will decrease, the surviving students will be excellent members of society.

[Exi5tentialist]

So, you are in favor of the students having to follow directions and not being permitted to say whatever they want, when they want? And, they need to follow teachers' instructions and keep quiet when told, and when the question-and-answer session starts, they can ask questions? Good - then we're in agreement.

The School of Coito:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Swevi4g ... re=related[/youtube]

[Coito ergo sum]

Valedictorian of Exi's new school:

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

[Bella Fortuna]

I'm in favour of students doing whatever they like, however, if they fail their exams they are to be sent to the soylent green processing plants before the next semester begins. Any students they distract and who also fail their exams will not be shown leniency - they to will become a green edible wafer. These wafers are to be served in the school cafeterias. So it is that I propose to kill three birds with one stone: Freedom of choice for the students is allowed, Malnutrition and the cost of schools will decrease, the surviving students will be excellent members of society.

I vote for you.

[klr]

I'm in favour of students doing whatever they like, however, if they fail their exams they are to be sent to the soylent green processing plants before the next semester begins. Any students they distract and who also fail their exams will not be shown leniency - they to will become a green edible wafer. These wafers are to be served in the school cafeterias. So it is that I propose to kill three birds with one stone: Freedom of choice for the students is allowed, Malnutrition and the cost of schools will decrease, the surviving students will be excellent members of society.

I think you'll find that's not Kosher.

I'm sure the other religions would have some dietary objections as well.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm in favour of students doing whatever they like, however, if they fail their exams they are to be sent to the soylent green processing plants before the next semester begins. Any students they distract and who also fail their exams will not be shown leniency - they to will become a green edible wafer. These wafers are to be served in the school cafeterias. So it is that I propose to kill three birds with one stone: Freedom of choice for the students is allowed, Malnutrition and the cost of schools will decrease, the surviving students will be excellent members of society.

I think you'll find that's not Kosher.

I'm sure the other religions would have some dietary objections as well.

What if you hang them upside down and and have them blessed by a voodoo priest?

[Exi5tentialist]

So, you are in favor of the students having to follow directions and not being permitted to say whatever they want, when they want? And, they need to follow teachers' instructions and keep quiet when told, and when the question-and-answer session starts, they can ask questions? Good - then we're in agreement.

Visiting speakers are fine. There is no need for them to proselytize religion, though. There is enough to learn in school without muddling it up with nonsense.

It's true though, all we hear from you is that students must obey, obey, obey. I think my YouTube link is a quite reasonable summation of your position; I note the desperate depths to which you've stooped in response!

I agree with you, religion shouldn't proselytize and I'm sure religious speakers would come in for plenty of stick from students if they start trying to do that. Free speech is a two-way street, and there is no early enough point at which to develop the art of heckling. After all, you wouldn't want students to grow up on a society where a man is carted off by heavies just for heckling the President, would you?

[Coito ergo sum]

So, you are in favor of the students having to follow directions and not being permitted to say whatever they want, when they want? And, they need to follow teachers' instructions and keep quiet when told, and when the question-and-answer session starts, they can ask questions? Good - then we're in agreement.

Visiting speakers are fine. There is no need for them to proselytize religion, though. There is enough to learn in school without muddling it up with nonsense.

It's true though, all we hear from you is that students must obey, obey, obey.

Mustn't they? Or, are they free to disregard teachers' instructions? They're little kids, after all.

I think my YouTube link is a quite reasonable summation of your position; I note the desperate depths to which you've stooped in response!

My response was in keeping with the spirit of your youtube video.

I agree with you, religion shouldn't proselytize and I'm sure religious speakers would come in for plenty of stick from students if they start trying to do that. Free speech is a two-way street, and there is no early enough point at which to develop the art of heckling. After all, you wouldn't want students to grow up on a society where a man is carted off by heavies just for heckling the President, would you?

That depends where and when. I wouldn't want to live in a world where the President couldn't get up and speak at a dinner or something without being heckled. And, like heckler at a debate or conference, people don't have the right to disrupt meetings. Hecklers at city council meetings ought be removed, for example.

[Robert_S]

That's a president though. Most teachers deserve at least a little respect.

[Exi5tentialist]

Mustn't they? Or, are they free to disregard teachers' instructions? They're little kids, after all.

So all these kids are "little" now? It sounds to me a bit like you do not want them to be free at all. What are your frightened of?

My response was in keeping with the spirit of your youtube video.

Well I'm an atheist, I don't believe in spirits.

That depends where and when. I wouldn't want to live in a world where the President couldn't get up and speak at a dinner or something without being heckled.

Really? You'd want the President to be immune from heckling? I want the opposite - and only because everybody has the right of free speech, and that includes heckling. Our 'leaders' want sanitized, stage-managed speeches where they can be seen to be the perfect speechifiers, skilfully handling every problem. And President Obama in that clip handled the situation very well, with good humour n'awl, but let's face it he had more than a little support from some paid thugs who eliminated the problem for him in short order.

And where do you draw the line? What about this 82-year-old man who famously shouted "rubbish!" at our Home Secretary in 2005 and was quickly bundled out of the Party Conference Hall for daring to exercise his right of free speech?

And, like heckler at a debate or conference, people don't have the right to disrupt meetings. Hecklers at city council meetings ought be removed, for example.

Very, very wrong. We have a free-speech society. Hecklers at city council meetings cutting services or forcing people into poverty should be applauded, not 'removed'. I think this is the difference between us. It is not some small, detailed argument about visiting speakers in schools, it is your fundamental misunderstanding about the right of free speech in general, and your inability to trust people in general to exercise their right of free speech productively.