Is Christian Evangelism a threat to our way of life?

[Seth]

In the US a massive rise in Evangelism was achieved in just a couple of generations, thanks in no small part to the home schooling movement. Here in the UK, faith schools are able to pay lip service to educational requirements and are getting away with teaching ID in science lessons. It's not inconceivable that we could see a similar rise in fundamentalist belief because kids are passing through faith schools that indoctrinate fundamentalist beliefs. And there are more faith schools than ever before.

Hm. Why is that, do you suppose? Why the resurgence in religious faith?

Perhaps it's because religion is an evolutionary adaptation that helps societies survive, and atheism is a nihilistic pathway to species extinction.

Hmmm.... that's an incredibly perceptive presumptuous thing to say Seth.

Besides, I wasn't talking about a rise in religious faith (as there's been an overall fall) but a rise in evangelical sects and fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism in religion is a direct response to fundamentalism in secularism.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Even Islam, with its awful beliefs in religious intolerance and oppression against outsiders, is, internally, a very peaceful and stable society in which to live. It's ordered and controlled and those MEN who accept it enjoy substantial benefits from that order and control.

The benefits for women seem a little more nebulous, however.

[Seth]

But we can just profit from all that superstition. People are willing to freely pay for the stupidity tax: lottery tickets.

Jewish fella goes to synagog one day and starts to pray. "Oh Lord," he says, "I'm a good man. I go to temple every week, I do mitzvahs, I give to the poor, I keep kosher and I do all that you command. Dear God, once, just once couldn't you let me win the lottery?"

The world goes silent, the clouds part and an intensely bright beam of divine light bathes him in glory as a voice as enormous as the universe says to him...

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

"Moshe, help me out, buy a ticket.

[Seth]

Even Islam, with its awful beliefs in religious intolerance and oppression against outsiders, is, internally, a very peaceful and stable society in which to live. It's ordered and controlled and those MEN who accept it enjoy substantial benefits from that order and control.

The benefits for women seem a little more nebulous, however.

Depends on who you ask I suppose. There appear to be a great many Muslim women who are satisfied with their place in society. Still, I was talking about overall social order and stability, not necessarily universal individual human liberty and satisfaction.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Even Islam, with its awful beliefs in religious intolerance and oppression against outsiders, is, internally, a very peaceful and stable society in which to live. It's ordered and controlled and those MEN who accept it enjoy substantial benefits from that order and control.

The benefits for women seem a little more nebulous, however.

Depends on who you ask I suppose. There appear to be a great many Muslim women who are satisfied with their place in society. Still, I was talking about overall social order and stability, not necessarily universal individual human liberty and satisfaction.

Most people, in any society, tend to prefer the known to the unknown. That doesn't mean that they are actually better off. Had Hitler's millennium-long Third Reich come to fruition, I am sure that "those who accept it would enjoy substantial benefits from that order and control."

So "overall social order and stability" is important in islamic states but individual freedom rules in your backyard, does it? Nobody on this site has championed the cause of individual liberty more than you have, yet now you extol the benefits of order and control? Pull the other one, Seth.

[Audley Strange]

@Seth.

I don't disagree with much you've said perhaps because I am a happy to admit I am a hedonic nihilist who is quite self absorbed. I'd not say that it was a positive motivator as much as just a motivator, with both positive and negative aspects, because it is simply a mechanism of behavioural control, it is nothing more than Plato and Strauss' Noble lie, something that all political ideologies have attempted to emulate, without the wit to make all their promises of paradise post-mortem.

My personal issue is that I have a hard time believing in the authority of those who exist, so I'm hardly going to start worrying about the authority of a indeterminate concept.

[Robert_S]

...I was talking about overall social order and stability, not necessarily universal individual human liberty and satisfaction.

Collectivist!!!

[Gallstones]

Patriarchy and the contentment of women.

If it is all you know, and there are efforts to prevent you being exposed to alternate ways of living and being, then I guess most (especially the stupid ones) would be content with it.

I suppose it was the bane of western culture to allow women to hold and express an opinion about patriarchy (or anything for that matter), especially when that opinion not became outwardly critical, but women started to actively reject it and make demands!!! Imagine that. What is that called again, when women do it? Ahhh yes, bitching.

[HomerJay]

I agree. What's more, I'll be very glad not to see such a society come into being, because secularism and rationality are not axiomatically congruent or concurrent mental states. History shows us that secularism is more often closely aligned with despotism, destruction and murder on an enormous scale. Indeed, secularism has deliberately and intentionally killed more people in the last 100 years than religion ever has in all of recorded history.

As I said, history shows us that secularism is NOT a suitable replacement for religion. It's a valuable adjunct to some degree in government, but it's not a substitute for the powerful forces of religious belief towards social harmony and order.

This is all just vapid nonsense, secularism makes no comment on belief, our sweet Lord Jesus can be said to have introduced secularism to the Jooz and many religious movements are secular.

[JimC]

I agree. What's more, I'll be very glad not to see such a society come into being, because secularism and rationality are not axiomatically congruent or concurrent mental states. History shows us that secularism is more often closely aligned with despotism, destruction and murder on an enormous scale. Indeed, secularism has deliberately and intentionally killed more people in the last 100 years than religion ever has in all of recorded history.

As I said, history shows us that secularism is NOT a suitable replacement for religion. It's a valuable adjunct to some degree in government, but it's not a substitute for the powerful forces of religious belief towards social harmony and order.

This is all just vapid nonsense, secularism makes no comment on belief, our sweet Lord Jesus can be said to have introduced secularism to the Jooz and many religious movements are secular.

Quite correct; "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's etc" Mind you, in the centuries after Christ his followers wanted to rule society just as powerfully as any potential Caliphate; it's just that Christians have become toothless tigers (due to the brave efforts of many who fought its tyranny), although many are still wannabe theocrats...

But the crazy thing is Seth implying that anybody wants to use atheism as a basis for government, and the "herding of cat's" thing makes that impossible.

All atheists want is that government and religion are kept apart, which I rather thought was an important aspect of his beloved constitution.

Whatever governmental structure is right for a given society is a matter for political debate, it should have nothing to do with whether people are religious or non-religious. The helping and organising features of religions can easily be replaced by other community-based structures. Religion does not have a unique, magic ability to be the only source of solace and organisation in a community...

[tattuchu]

...blah blah blah blahdy-blah..

By the way, how does it feel to be excoriated, attacked and reviled for your beliefs? Not very nice, is it? There's a lesson there for you if you have the wit to see it.

*shrugs* Whatever. Nice talking to you.

[Pappa]

Maybe not so much a threat to my way of life, Seth. In fact, I'm not sure what "a threat to my way of life" means exactly That may be a little melodramatic. But the fact that so many members of my family are religious loonies, or otherwise loony, means I essentially have no family.

Melodramatic indeed. No, it means that you are an intolerant ass who cares more about your own bigoted ideological biases than you do your family.

I have, actually, fucked off and left them to their own devices.

How very selfish and self-centered of you.

They can certainly do as they wish, and have every right to do as they wish.

Thank God for that. But I note that many people here (and certainly at Ratskep) would enshrine anti-religious bigotry and oppression into law if given the chance to do so.

But my father is born-again, my twin sister is born-again, my step-sister is born-again, and my mother is insane, so far into the lobster trap of (in her case non-religious) woo that she'll never find a way out, and my little sister is brain damaged as the result of an accident. So for all intents and purpose I have no family. I suppose it's a threat to my way of life in that I no longer have a family life.

Hoist on your own petard, I'd say, if you'd give up all your family relations over such a petty thing as their harmless delusions.

All you have to do to have your family back is give up your intolerance and bigotry and accept that they are human beings who hold beliefs different from your own and allow them to live their lives in ways that make them happy without being an arrogant, judgmental, supercilious prick who thinks their own opinions and beliefs are perfection incarnate and is fearful that those beliefs are so very weak and insubstantial that even associating with family members who hold different opinions will tarnish and corrode that ignorant bigotry. You don't have to agree with them, all you have to do is tolerate their religious beliefs, and that's not really very hard at all. I do it every day.

Maybe they know something about happiness that you don't. After all, when 80 percent of the planet believes in "woo" and live happier lives as a result, perhaps it's you that's the errant fool, not them.

I don't understand the last line of your post.

Gay bashing and religious bashing come from exactly the same motivation: bigoted intolerance of those not like you. A bigot is a bigot, no matter who the target is. Cloaking it in self-righteous atheistic moralizing doesn't change the fact that you're an anti-religious bigot by your own admission.

By the way, how does it feel to be excoriated, attacked and reviled for your beliefs? Not very nice, is it? There's a lesson there for you if you have the wit to see it.



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*** Seth was suspended for 24h for this post. ***

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[sandinista]

Is Christian Evangelism a threat to our way of life? Yes, to everyone way of life except for christian evangelists. scum.

[Robert_S]

Catholics are getting in on the willful ignorance market too!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2889.story