An Open Letter from atheists to the Atheist Convention

[FedUpWithFaith]

I've got your back buddy.

Also BWE's comment was not trolling, you goon.

Heh. Calling names, making false accusations, deliberately altering quotes, do not make any case.

Getting desparate or something?

[Gurdur]

Gurdur, people are asking some legitimate questions, and it's natural if they are concerned about the wording that they would ask you more before considering signing it. Maybe you might take a less confrontational approach and consider just answering their questions?

Depends on the person. I see at least one sock, someone who is not being at all open about who he is, and as for confrontation, it wasn't me who started it. I do see your point, maiforpeace, but my view is such:

I have a couple of people asking legit questions, and a couple simply trolling. I tend to be very upfront; but I don't treat trolling as anything but that which it is. If you think I have unfairly dismissed anyone at all, please point out the specific case.

Or IOW I'm being confrontational because it's called for at times.

I agree the wording of the letter implies others share your views. Based on the responses in the thread following your letter, people do share your views so in fairness you do represent some people. I personally don't read it to say it represents all atheists, but if others do ask them exactly where it does this for them.

Bingo. Yes. Thanks. Everyday commonsense, and rightly so.

[J.A.Poisson]

Did you miss where I said, "play nice"?

No, that was me being nice.

If you need a 24-hour vacation to cool off I can arrange that easily.

Are you serious?

Man, this place has changed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Did you miss where I said, "play nice"?

No, that was me being nice.

If you need a 24-hour vacation to cool off I can arrange that easily.

Are you serious?

Man, this place has changed.

I'm not going to let this thread get crazy. Be advised. Play nice or go on vacation. That's for everybody. [/warnings]

[FedUpWithFaith]

......

You are completely free to start a counter-petition. So exactly what are you whining about?

It looks far more that you simply want to censor such efforts that you don't like from those you don't like rather than you wanting to debate them. Let's face it, you came in with only empty name-calling, a false sense of victimhood and a couple of false claims. But all in all, you're going to have to get used to the fact that we live in democracies, and people will have the right to do things you don't like -- no matter how much you attempt to censor them.

What? Huh? My original post you dismissed was harshly critical but it was honest and straightforward and blunt. I was NOT a personal attack. You're trying to play the victim and reflect your tactics on us.

I'd be delighted to debate your letter. Why don't you start by addressing the questions already asked so far my myself and others with more than smarmy dismissals. What exactly was the false claim I made?

And stop setting up strawman arguments about me trying to censor you. What kind of manipulative bullshit is that? What power do I have to do that? None.

[FedUpWithFaith]

Did you miss where I said, "play nice"?

No, that was me being nice.

If you need a 24-hour vacation to cool off I can arrange that easily.

Are you serious?

Man, this place has changed.

I'm not going to let this thread get crazy. Be advised. Play nice or go on vacation. That's for everybody. [/warnings]

Gawd,

I don't see anything in this thread that merits punishment, certainly nothing I've said. Yeah, Gurder made a crack equating Poisson with the stench of fish and Poisson retorted by slipping in "goon". Big deal. This is no flame war. Back off.

If "play nice" is our new mantra for the forum and this means we can't have spirited discussions of passionate disagreement then remove my membership from the community right now. For that matter. if the forum management interprets any of my posts in this thread as "not playing nice" in any manner that suitable for warning then likewise, terminate my membership, I wouldn't want to be a part of this place anymore.

[charlou]

I'm not going to let this thread get crazy. Be advised. Play nice or go on vacation. That's for everybody. [/warnings]

There is some unnecessary and unproductive antagonism, but nothing that warrants suspensions.


I'm wondering why people are bothering with trying to discuss this with Gurdur as he doesn't seem inclined to participate in reasonable discussion on this.

[charlou]

Oh, and not signing.

[FedUpWithFaith]

I'm not going to let this thread get crazy. Be advised. Play nice or go on vacation. That's for everybody. [/warnings]

There is some unnecessary and unproductive antagonism, but nothing that warrants suspensions.

Good. I trust if the unnecessary and unproductive antagonism continued, but did not show significant signs of spiraling out of control, punishment will remain off the table.

I'm wondering why people are bothering with trying to discuss this with Gurdur as he doesn't seem inclined to participate in reasonable discussion on this.

Speaking for myself, ever since Gurdur basically blew me and others off, I've concentrated on addressing the issues and concerns of others here. I would welcome a real dialogue with Gurder, but every indication from him suggests to me that's hopeless. The good side effect of that, however, is that i think some people who might have otherwise been uncritical will think twice before adding their name to his enterprise. Even if you agree with his message, I think any rational person must now wonder if he's the right one to champion it out there for the rest of us "grass roots atheists", whatever the fuck that is.

[irreligionist]

[elettaria]

So back to the discussing the sex life of the garden snail...

....oh crap, wrong thread.

[FedUpWithFaith]

.... Good to know you're open to constructive criticism.

Oh, I will happily argue with anyone who is being honest. You pretending to be honest?

Apparently you only allow comments on your blog that agree with the letter

What was asked for were signatories, not trolling. One trolling comment from someone who really ought to know better was removed. Kiss my arse on that one; if you want to argue, argue honestly. Trolling in an inappropriate place is just that.

I am quite willing to argue. With those who are honest. You wanna try again?

Please, can we stop the innuendo? Either come right out and call me a liar and show your evidence or address my concerns as originally stated in good faith. I won't report you.

and i haven't seen any dialogue from you with those that disagree with you, even on minor wording.

You obviously haven't looked around. Selection bias, it's a bitch. Now, do you think you can make any logical objection? Or was that only a rant in your pocket?

Care to give me a link to what you consider this productive dialogue concering the objections of others - like mine?

It's not just me.

You BWE then? Tsk. You've come down a lot in this world.

I don't know what this means and something tells me I don't want to.

Seems to me you are embodying just the traits that so many say they find offensive about atheists. Great job!

Dude, I have a sense of humour, I recommend you get one too.

[/quote]

Good to hear, but given the tension of the thread,you were careless to word your humor so close to the smug and smarmy. That's forgivable. I'd be a hypocrite to complain.


Frankly, I find most of your open letter quite agreeable. The concerns I had were more in regards to subtle interpretations that I felt,in combination, were self-defeating and could be construed as downright offensive to precisely the people you hope to influence If I had seen you sincerely address any of the minor dissent and concerns that i saw before I posted or seen any intellectual curiosity from you about what might be turning some off I never would have posted here in the first place. Your attitude, compounded by your response to me, and the manner by which you have sought to characterize me and others, led me to question your very fitness to spearhead such a public action. Perhaps i turned a molehill into a mountain. But you delivered every cup of dirt.

In any event, I have to go to dinner. If you'd be interested in exploring my criticisms, please start by answering the questions of others. It's really not that big a deal. A few relatively small tweaks could make that a great letter.

[Hermit]

An Open Letter from grass-roots atheists to the 2010 Global Atheist Convention, Melbourne, Australia

Please make a Comment on that blog entry if you agree to the Letter, and please publicise it.

A couple of minor points:

• 1. If you write an open letter, run it through a spell checker. "grevious"?
  2. You might want to recast the following sentence: "We are part of the grass-roots and the activists." I know what you are trying to say, but the meaning can be expressed more smoothly.

I will not sign the letter for two reasons:

• 1. It should be addressed to Dawkins, not the conference at large.
  2. It is poorly structured and waffly.

[Gurdur]

Response on this has been extremely and welcomingly rapid by Stuart Bechman, AAI President; the exchange of his response and the replies from some of us is here:

A response from Stuart Bechman, President of the Atheist Alliance International, to the Open Letter from grass-roots atheists to the 2010 Global Atheist Convention, Melbourne, Australia

which just goes to show, there's always a happy ending.

[Hermit]

Response on this has been extremely and welcomingly rapid by Stuart Bechman, AAI President; the exchange of his response and the replies from some of us is here:

A response from Stuart Bechman, President of the Atheist Alliance International, to the Open Letter from grass-roots atheists to the 2010 Global Atheist Convention, Melbourne, Australia

which just goes to show, there's always a happy ending.

You seem to be using a definition of 'happy ending' that I have not hitherto encountered.

I don't understand this letter...

this letter seems to have mixed messages...

I am not sure what AAI is to derive from it...

I'm not sure what the value of directing this letter to the convention committees is intended to accomplish...

Is there a reason why the disgruntled parties don't take initiative into your own hands to create a new forum that won't be shut down by RDF or II?...

Looks like I am not the only one who regards the letter as poorly constructed, wrongly addressed waffle.