How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

[Rum]

I perform a balancing act every day, teaching in a catholic school. Most of the staff I admire in a variety of ways, but their emotional dependence of their religion saddens me. I have increasingly been a little more pushy in my criticisms of the church; in terms of the hierarchy, and its pathetic reaction to the abuse of victims by priests, many of the committed catholics agree with me...

When you take the King's coin, you follow the King's rules. Does it not smack more than a little of hypocrisy for you to be taking money from the Catholic church as an employee while being an Atheist? Or does greed and situational ethics allow you to sleep well at night?

The King's coins in this case pay for teaching mathematics at school, and nothing more. I went to a catholic school where all the brothers knew who among the secular teachers that were contracted by the school was an atheist, and saw no ethical problem with that.

Quite so. Here in the UK almost 1/3 of schools are Catholic, CofE and a smattering of other denominations, however in my experience the teachers are pretty mixed, though Catholics tend to me in the majority in the Catholic schools, whic are in any case liberalising like mad here. In addition, Seth's simplistic and crudely judgmental comment does not allow for the complexity of schools' funding, which here at any rate means that Catholic schools are part funded by the diocesan and partly by the state.

[Svartalf]

This may belong in a different thread... but isn't it surprising that a very large number (I was about to say a majority, but don't actually know that) of religiously managed/owned (not necessarily outwardly religious or oriented to it in the curriculum) schools are Catholic, even in countries where Catholics are a tiny minority compared to protestants (so, of course, I'm not using France, Ireland or Australia as a basis, where the large amount of Catholics in the population justifies the presence of Catholic schools) ... just look at the American expression for a girl wearing a British style school uniform : 'Catholic Schoolgirl'.

[Rum]

This may belong in a different thread... but isn't it surprising that a very large number (I was about to say a majority, but don't actually know that) of religiously managed/owned (not necessarily outwardly religious or oriented to it in the curriculum) schools are Catholic, even in countries where Catholics are a tiny minority compared to protestants (so, of course, I'm not using France, Ireland or Australia as a basis, where the large amount of Catholics in the population justifies the presence of Catholic schools) ... just look at the American expression for a girl wearing a British style school uniform : 'Catholic Schoolgirl'.

As I'm sure you know the history of conflict between Catholicism and the C of E here is a long and bloody one harking back to the days of Henry VIII. The proportion of catholic schools here is roughly a reflection of the proportion of the catholic population.

Interestingly they perform rather better in terms of exam results than state maintained schools and there is a lot of demand from non Catholics for places. Here they are required to accept a proportion of pupils from non catholic backgrounds. Can't remember the number but it is about one fifth as I recall, though don't quote me.

[macdoc]

In Canada Catholic Schools have a separate board but are under the general curriculum
They are funded by Ontario and have to conform to the same curriculum but are allowed to teach one religion class.
They must accept non-Catholics into high school ....they may keep primary school to Catholic families.

The deal was grandfathered into the constitution when Quebec and Ontario joined under the BNA act. The Catholic power in Quebec is just about non- existent - Quebec went from backward, rural under the kirks thumb with the highest birthrate in first world countries to secular with the lowest birthrate....all in a single generation ( The Quiet Revolution ).

[JimC]

I perform a balancing act every day, teaching in a catholic school. Most of the staff I admire in a variety of ways, but their emotional dependence of their religion saddens me. I have increasingly been a little more pushy in my criticisms of the church; in terms of the hierarchy, and its pathetic reaction to the abuse of victims by priests, many of the committed catholics agree with me...

When you take the King's coin, you follow the King's rules. Does it not smack more than a little of hypocrisy for you to be taking money from the Catholic church as an employee while being an Atheist? Or does greed and situational ethics allow you to sleep well at night?

The King's coins in this case pay for teaching mathematics at school, and nothing more. I went to a catholic school where all the brothers knew who among the secular teachers that were contracted by the school was an atheist, and saw no ethical problem with that.

If I was employed to teach woo, and didn't, there may be hypocrisy. Otherwise, not...

[Thumpalumpacus]

... just look at the American expression for a girl wearing a British style school uniform : 'Catholic Schoolgirl'.

That's because we're short on British schools here. We only see that get-up on Catholic schoolgirls.

[Svartalf]

In Canada Catholic Schools have a separate board but are under the general curriculum
They are funded by Ontario and have to conform to the same curriculum but are allowed to teach one religion class.
They must accept non-Catholics into high school ....they may keep primary school to Catholic families.

The deal was grandfathered into the constitution when Quebec and Ontario joined under the BNA act. The Catholic power in Quebec is just about non- existent - Quebec went from backward, rural under the kirks thumb with the highest birthrate in first world countries to secular with the lowest birthrate....all in a single generation ( The Quiet Revolution ).

I don't really know... I was a little kid in Canada, and rather oblivious to a lot of things. I do remember that I spent... I guess Americans would call it third grade, there, in a school where they taught some form of catechism, and they had me take first communion, so I guess it was Catholic... but I know protestant kids who attended the same school, and when I say protestant, I mean French Calvinist (though I guess their Swedish mother is Lutheran).

[Svartalf]

... just look at the American expression for a girl wearing a British style school uniform : 'Catholic Schoolgirl'.

That's because we're short on British schools here. We only see that get-up on Catholic schoolgirls.

Meaning that
a) schools that mandate a uniform in the US tend to be Catholic
b) Either British school uniforms at large were influenced by those used in Catholic establishments there, or the founders of Catholic schools in the US came from the UK and reproduced their native patterns. Either way, significant catholic education presence in the UK... and more drive to found schools than other denominations

[JimC]

I want a no-holds-barred wrestling match between Svarty and Ani as to who is the most catholic atheist on this forum...

[Svartalf]

You know that among our folk, that's actually called a drinking contest.

Who can wrestle the most pints before rolling under the table.

[JimC]

You know that among our folk, that's actually called a drinking contest.

An Irishman, a Frenchman and an Australian walked into a bar...

No contest, really...

[Svartalf]

Ozzie ends up paying all the rounds?

[JimC]

Ozzie ends up paying all the rounds?

Sure, given that Ireland and France are now virtually broke, why not be magnanimous to poor relations?

Anyway, it will only take a few rounds till they are snoring under the table, then the serious drinking can begin...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The question is, of course, whether analytical thinking that erodes belief in God is evolutionarily beneficial or harmful. Only time will tell I suppose, but given the 6000 or so years religion has endured as a meme, I'd speculate that atheism is going to come up holding the shit end of the stick when it comes to survival of the fittest. This of course fits with my hypothesis that increasing intelligence is only evolutionarily beneficial up to a certain point, and that beyond that point it becomes highly detrimental to the species and will probably result in the destruction of at least the overly-analytical and overly-intelligent of the species in favor of the "just dumb enough" majority.

And they say conservatives are anti-intellectual. How silly.

Yeah, they're not so selective in their antis.

[macdoc]

Love it - success by stupid according to Seth.

I'm surprised he's not worshiping mice or frogs



or rabbits as the pinnacle of "creation" .....fuck like mad and litter with litters....must be an intuitive thing.