This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Tigger » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:01 am

Lion IRC wrote:What a joke. What lack of faith in God!

Satan must be laughing so hard.
Just snipping out all the rest and looking at these bits, I find it a tragedy that the whole damn thing could have maybe been avoided were it not for this insistence in believing in all of this utter shit. Humanity has been kept in the dark for so long, and progress stymied because of religion in one form or another. Fucking meaningless fairy tales made up by primitive people, and perpetuated by control freaks and ignoramuses of the highest order.

I sincerely hope, but I doubt, your Satan reference was metaphorical. You actually believe in this crap, don't you? Shame on you and all theists.
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Pappa » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:09 am

Feck wrote:Even the church is going to go bankrupt at 1.4 million a case :tup:
Yay!!!
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Animavore » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:37 am

Watching Lion IRC tying himself in knots is funny :lol:


Anyway Nietzsche, as usual, hits the nail on the head regarding "chastity".
I love the forest. It is bad to live in cities: there, there are too many of the lustful.

Is it not better to fall into the hands of a murderer, than into the dreams of a lustful woman?

And just look at these men: their eye saith it—they know nothing better on earth than to lie with a woman.

Filth is at the bottom of their souls; and alas! if their filth hath still spirit in it!

Would that ye were perfect—at least as animals! But to animals belongeth innocence.

Do I counsel you to slay your instincts? I counsel you to innocence in your instincts.

Do I counsel you to chastity? Chastity is a virtue with some, but with many almost a vice.

These are continent, to be sure: but doggish lust looketh enviously out of all that they do.

Even into the heights of their virtue and into their cold spirit doth this creature follow them, with its discord.

And how nicely can doggish lust beg for a piece of spirit, when a piece of flesh is denied it!

Ye love tragedies and all that breaketh the heart? But I am distrustful of your doggish lust.

Ye have too cruel eyes, and ye look wantonly towards the sufferers. Hath not your lust just disguised itself and taken the name of fellow-suffering?

And also this parable give I unto you: Not a few who meant to cast out their devil, went thereby into the swine themselves.

To whom chastity is difficult, it is to be dissuaded: lest it become the road to hell—to filth and lust of soul.

Do I speak of filthy things? That is not the worst thing for me to do.

Not when the truth is filthy, but when it is shallow, doth the discerning one go unwillingly into its waters.

Verily, there are chaste ones from their very nature; they are gentler of heart, and laugh better and oftener than you.

They laugh also at chastity, and ask: "What is chastity?

Is chastity not folly? But the folly came unto us, and not we unto it.

We offered that guest harbour and heart: now it dwelleth with us—let it stay as long as it will!"—

Thus spake Zarathustra.
[Of Chastity, Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

The last 4 lines are the best. Basically some people are chaste by nature and ask "what is chastity?" as if it's the funniest thing in the world. Chastity, or celibacy, is not something one should force upon oneself.
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Animavore » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:43 am

Pappa wrote:
Feck wrote:Even the church is going to go bankrupt at 1.4 million a case :tup:
Yay!!!
Double yay. I hope they crumble like badly made sponge cake. But I fear/suspect its unthinking adherents will bail them out like the classless bunch they are.
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Ian » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:01 pm

Lion IRC wrote:
Ian wrote:I never said you were apologizing for those responsible for trying to cover up these crimes. I'm saying you're apologizing for Catholicism in general. Do you not see the correlation? Have you no concept of cause-and-effect?

A Catholic support group online today griped about how maybe no more than 2% of priests worlwide are affected by this. Tell me... if you had a son as an altar boy and you knew beforehand that there was roughly a 1 in 50 chance that he'd be raped if left alone with a priest, would you accept those odds? Wouldn't you wonder if the system itself was somehow faulty in producing a flaw that great?
Hi Ian,

No I do not see the correlation between catholicism and paedophilia.
I'd like to quote The Architect here: "Denial is the most predictable of all human responses."
I find that highly illogical and a contradiction of every single pedophile whose self-defense claims are based on the assertion they were "born that way" - which, by the way, is a claim evolutionary scientists (and bonobos) would find hard to dispute. You may join the dots between religion and pedophilia but I do not. I think your lack of reasoning is a disappointment.
Do you also find absolutely no causal relation between Islam and suicide bombing (pardon me, martyrdom operations)?
Lion IRC wrote:Similarly, I find your interpretation of statistics (and lack of knowledge about catholicism) deplorable. It is irrelevant whether the number of child abuse cases is one or one thousand. The acceptable level of child abuse is ZERO. Notwithstanding that, the ratio of pedophiles to victims is NOT 1:1 therefore the "odds" are not 1 in 50. Not all altar servers are males. Not all victims were altar servers and not all were raped. Of the alleged 2% (paedophiles pretending to be priests) not all were parish priests saying Mass regularly with altar servers. Your imagination is contributing to your biased thinking.

Lion (IRC)
What on earth made you think I have little knowledge about catholicism? Because I'm criticizing it?
Jeez, I'm not saying that 1 out of every 50 altar boys in history has been raped because roughly 2% of priests are implicated in this problem. You're misinterpreting what I said (imagine that). Your imagination is contributing to your downplaying this mess.

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Lion IRC » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:58 am

mindyourmind wrote: We will have the problem of institutionalised child molestation with us for as long as people like you continue to use the "yes but look at them" defence, a disgusting and thinly veiled effort (conscious or otherwise) of spreading the guilt and spinning the damage over as large an area as possible. It will only get better once you see the horror of what this farcical institution is guilty of, and stop blaming others.

And yes, of course there are atheist monsters, but we don't have large buildings, maintained on tax shelters, manned by a large proportion of old pederasts in the name of an outdated old religion to draw in the kiddies. Saying you're sorry only has any benefit if you are that ......... sorry. What the CC are doing, and reluctantly at that, is saying "Yes, we are sorry, we suppose, but ...." It is making the whole thing much worse in its response - but please, don't let us stop you. It is thrilling to sit here and see the blood of these disgusting old men flowing.
You want to falsely attribute motives do you? A little game of IRRATIONALIA?

How about if I see you and raise the bet. Lets both take a break from clear thinking and slag peoples "real" motives and tar eveyone with the same brush. Real enlightenment values ? bah!

...Oh yes, well everybody knows that the only reason those New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are sinking the boot into the catholic church is because it suits their cause. (hint $$$ snigger snigger) They will use any excuse. They dont care about pedophiles. They even use bonobos to justify homosexuality as natural.

Forget about 50,000 cases in the RCC over 30 years

There are more than 150 MILLION cases of child sexual abuse in a ONE SINGLE YEAR directly within the remit of SECULAR agencies.

And you expect me to believe that there arent some on the New Atheist bandwagon who arent being massively disingenuous?


Lets make a deal.

You accept that I am disgusted by religious leaders who knew and did nothing about pedophiles in their midst and I will accept that you aren't simply attacking them out of pure polemics or mob scapegoating to alleviate your guilt at the critical mass of child sexual abuse right under your nose.

If someone - an atheist - tells me they want the pope arrested as part of a campaign to eliminate the problem of pedophiles hiding in the RCC and being protected "for the greater good of the Church" I take them at their word.

Please dispense with the biased thinking about ..."people like you".

Lion (IRC)

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by mindyourmind » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:50 am

Lion IRC wrote:
mindyourmind wrote: We will have the problem of institutionalised child molestation with us for as long as people like you continue to use the "yes but look at them" defence, a disgusting and thinly veiled effort (conscious or otherwise) of spreading the guilt and spinning the damage over as large an area as possible. It will only get better once you see the horror of what this farcical institution is guilty of, and stop blaming others.

And yes, of course there are atheist monsters, but we don't have large buildings, maintained on tax shelters, manned by a large proportion of old pederasts in the name of an outdated old religion to draw in the kiddies. Saying you're sorry only has any benefit if you are that ......... sorry. What the CC are doing, and reluctantly at that, is saying "Yes, we are sorry, we suppose, but ...." It is making the whole thing much worse in its response - but please, don't let us stop you. It is thrilling to sit here and see the blood of these disgusting old men flowing.
You want to falsely attribute motives do you? A little game of IRRATIONALIA?

How about if I see you and raise the bet. Lets both take a break from clear thinking and slag peoples "real" motives and tar eveyone with the same brush. Real enlightenment values ? bah!

...Oh yes, well everybody knows that the only reason those New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are sinking the boot into the catholic church is because it suits their cause. (hint $$$ snigger snigger) They will use any excuse. They dont care about pedophiles. They even use bonobos to justify homosexuality as natural.

Forget about 50,000 cases in the RCC over 30 years

There are more than 150 MILLION cases of child sexual abuse in a ONE SINGLE YEAR directly within the remit of SECULAR agencies.

And you expect me to believe that there arent some on the New Atheist bandwagon who arent being massively disingenuous?


Lets make a deal.

You accept that I am disgusted by religious leaders who knew and did nothing about pedophiles in their midst and I will accept that you aren't simply attacking them out of pure polemics or mob scapegoating to alleviate your guilt at the critical mass of child sexual abuse right under your nose.

If someone - an atheist - tells me they want the pope arrested as part of a campaign to eliminate the problem of pedophiles hiding in the RCC and being protected "for the greater good of the Church" I take them at their word.

Please dispense with the biased thinking about ..."people like you".

Lion (IRC)
People like you (I said it again) are part of the problem, and your muddled and confused thinking and musings on a forum like this makes the problem worse. It is because the church, and all who think the way you do, do not take it on the chin without qualifications, and with a dilution of the blame, that this mess has been allowed to fester like it has. I can see from your response that you are angry and maybe even a bit embarrassed by this situation, and well you should be. Now put on the big boy pants and swallow the medicine, all of it, not just the bits that are palatable. If "people like me" knew what was going on we could have done something about it, if people like you were not so iffy and conditional in your condemnation of this criminal scandal your church would not have felt comfortable and confident that they are in an environment that would ultimately condone their actions.

So I want to ask you the same favour as I want to ask the RCC - stop whining as if you were the fucking victim, and clean up your mess - properly.
So you are saying that the reason why God created the universe, including millions of years of human and animal suffering, and the extinction of most species, is so that at the end of all of that a select few humans could be with him forever. I see.

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by colubridae » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:39 am

Lion IRC wrote:Lets make a deal.

You accept that I am disgusted by religious leaders who knew and did nothing about paedophiles in their midst and I will accept that you aren't simply attacking them out of pure polemics or mob scapegoating to alleviate your guilt at the critical mass of child sexual abuse right under your nose.

Lion (IRC)

See the bit in red….

It’s not true is it. It is a deliberate falsehood…


You are doing exactly what the RC is doing. You yourself are trying to cover up a cover up.
They did do something, they actually used their power and influence to protect the guilty from justice.

They perverted the course of justice…

Scream at the top of your voice if you want.
But you are only doing the same as them.
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Trolldor » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:08 am

The difference between a priest and a pedophile is that one is a morally corrupt individual supported by a vast and corrupt network who thrives on manipulating and abusing children, and the other is a pedophile.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:25 am

Lion IRC wrote:...Oh yes, well everybody knows that the only reason those New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are sinking the boot into the catholic church is because it suits their cause. (hint $$$ snigger snigger) They will use any excuse. They dont care about pedophiles. They even use bonobos to justify homosexuality as natural.

(My underlining)

Can you kindly explain how using bonobos to 'justify homosexuality as natural' in any way leads to 'not caring about paedophiles'? You wouldn't be equating homosexuals and paedophiles, would you? :dono:
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by orpheus » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:34 pm

:pop:
I think that language has a lot to do with interfering in our relationship to direct experience. A simple thing like metaphor will allows you to go to a place and say 'this is like that'. Well, this isn't like that. This is like this.

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celibate!

Post by AshtonBlack » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:38 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Lion IRC wrote:...Oh yes, well everybody knows that the only reason those New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are sinking the boot into the catholic church is because it suits their cause. (hint $$$ snigger snigger) They will use any excuse. They dont care about pedophiles. They even use bonobos to justify homosexuality as natural.

(My underlining)

Can you kindly explain how using bonobos to 'justify homosexuality as natural' in any way leads to 'not caring about paedophiles'? You wouldn't be equating homosexuals and paedophiles, would you? :dono:


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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celebate!

Post by epepke » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:49 am

Pappa wrote:The thing that really doesn't make much sense about this is..... surely, if they were gay, they'd be having sex with gay men, right?
If they are not having sex with gay men, then I wonder how priests manage to die of AIDS at between 3 and 4 times the rate of the general population.

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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celebate!

Post by Trolldor » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:28 am

epepke wrote:
Pappa wrote:The thing that really doesn't make much sense about this is..... surely, if they were gay, they'd be having sex with gay men, right?
If they are not having sex with gay men, then I wonder how priests manage to die of AIDS at between 3 and 4 times the rate of the general population.

Because you can catch AIDS just as easily from a woman as you can another man?
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Re: This just in - pedo priests gay, not celebate!

Post by JimC » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:49 am

born-again-atheist wrote:
epepke wrote:
Pappa wrote:The thing that really doesn't make much sense about this is..... surely, if they were gay, they'd be having sex with gay men, right?
If they are not having sex with gay men, then I wonder how priests manage to die of AIDS at between 3 and 4 times the rate of the general population.

Because you can catch AIDS just as easily from a woman as you can another man?
However, at least in the West (it's different in Africa, I know), the % of men with AIDS is much higher than women...

But, in any case, even if priests are more likely to be homosexual than the general population, that has nothing to do with pedophilia.
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