Ancient people didn't know shit

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, that too. But you need stone or bone drills and plows.
http://www.ehow.com/list_7186991_stone- ... ields.html

The Hmong used to use bone drills for certain things, IIRC.

[apophenia]

a) People specialized in doing that, which not everybody could do, thus those who could were valued.

b) If you combined the amount of knowledge on subjects that an average westerner learns through high school, much less college, I doubt the ancients would compare favorably. Just think of all the examples of internet memes you can recall, and the number of Wikipedia learning you've done. Don't get me wrong, memorizing something like the Koran or the Bible is an impressive feat, but compared to the sum total of things a literate, modern man knows, it's no comparison.

c) As FBM points out, ancient people did a lot of dying. We survived, likely less due to impressive feats of knowledge than due to a combination of natural fecundity, and better brain/body combination than competitive species. That being said, they have found that many skeletons display signs that a substantial portion of the ancients died as a result of getting gored by the bull. (And this tendency is even worse among neandertalensis, due to anatomy.) Ultimately, the greatness of the ancient argument fails on account of a selection bias — we're here because enough smarties survived — but that doesn't imply there were a lot of smarties, and likely, as in any age, the bulk simply excelled at dying.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

a) People specialized in doing that, which not everybody could do, thus those who could were valued.

The rock stars of the day. No doubt patrons kept them around to entertain during meals and such, so it might have become their "profession".

b) If you combined the amount of knowledge on subjects that an average westerner learns through high school, much less college, I doubt the ancients would compare favorably. Just think of all the examples of internet memes you can recall, and the number of Wikipedia learning you've done. Don't get me wrong, memorizing something like the Koran or the Bible is an impressive feat, but compared to the sum total of things a literate, modern man knows, it's no comparison.

"These days you don't have to know anything, you just have to know where to look it up." Gestaltists are in demand now.

c) As FBM points out, ancient people did a lot of dying. We survived, likely less due to impressive feats of knowledge than due to a combination of natural fecundity, and better brain/body combination than competitive species. That being said, they have found that many skeletons display signs that a substantial portion of the ancients died as a result of getting gored by the bull. (And this tendency is even worse among neandertalensis, due to anatomy.) Ultimately, the greatness of the ancient argument fails on account of a selection bias — we're here because enough smarties survived — but that doesn't imply there were a lot of smarties, and likely, as in any age, the bulk simply excelled at dying.

As it was, so it is, and ever shall be. 99.9999% of everybody don't mean shit to the world as a whole. (BTW, Neanderthals were famous for surviving severe injuries. The bone collections show major breakages that had healed before they died.)

[Tero]

Such a waste, I'd like to have some Neanderthals around. Wonder what was their failure? Possibly language skills. I don't think their brains were worse for solving tool problems, but they had no society. Just small packs. Eventually they would have made bows and arrows.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Such a waste, I'd like to have some Neanderthals around. Wonder what was their failure? Possibly language skills. I don't think their brains were worse for solving tool problems, but they had no society. Just small packs. Eventually they would have made bows and arrows.

Not sure they didn't have a society, possibly a society but not as Homo Sap would have it. I think their reproductive rate may have done them in, they were crowded out or subhumed by the H.S. folks. I don't think humans of any sort would have considered other humans as "different" given the sparse numbers to found then.

[apophenia]

Such a waste, I'd like to have some Neanderthals around. Wonder what was their failure? Possibly language skills. I don't think their brains were worse for solving tool problems, but they had no society. Just small packs. Eventually they would have made bows and arrows.

Not sure what the professional consensus is, and in general there isn't one on the question of why specifically they died out. But if one goes with the theory that they were out-competed by modern humans, there are significant factors. Because of various anatomical features of neanderthals, they could not run as fast, and when running used up more energy for the same results as modern humans. Also, because of the construction of the shoulder in neanderthals, they could not throw a spear or rock over-hand the way modern humans do, so they had to get closer to their prey in order to bring it down, risking the injuries previously discussed.

[Tero]

Competing with us certainly was a problem. We had not learned farming yet. Interesting about the shoulder, as chimpanzees do not have that problem. Or do they? All the videos have them throwing underhanded or sideways. The Gorilla here is the best I found. And now we know, gorillas knew shit. Shit flies.

[FBM]

I recall reading somewhere that the other primates shoulders are sloped and forward-oriented to facilitate walking on all fours, whereas H. sapiens' shoulders gradually realigned more upwards and in line with the thoracic vertebrae after bipedalism came in vogue. As far as I know, chimps throw underhanded, backhanded or sidearm. I don't recall ever seeing an overhand throw by any other primate but H. sapiens.

[Tero]

Was their hip joint similar to ours? I got rid of my hominids books.

[FBM]

I don't recall the details, but I think the pelvis became shallower, the hip joints tilted back and the neck of the femur changed angles to facilitate upright posture. I guess I could just go look it up, eh?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Was their hip joint similar to ours? I got rid of my hominids books.

[Svartalf]

Anybody know of a site, or good book, where the anatomical differences and their significance are properly detailed?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody know of a site, or good book, where the anatomical differences and their significance are properly detailed?

Maybe...

[Tero]

Hmm, I gotta finish the archeology book first. Tools and such. Pollen.