I actually hate Christianity!

[JimC]

Various people, please note the title of the thread.

Rum hates christianity, not necessarily christians.

Rather important difference in semantics...

[hadespussercats]

On the other hand, I've had many, many probative and interesting discussions with theists about religion, and have gone into great depth and detail in the examination of religious belief, and have almost never ended up in a shouting match. This is because I approach the subject respectfully and with due consideration for the feelings of those I'm discussing with. It is true that under close examination, they will become uncomfortable and sometimes will end the conversation by resorting to proclamations of faith, but when that happens I don't declare victory and dance around like a child, reveling in their discomfiture, I simply thank them for the interesting discussion and change the subject.

That's what rational adults do.

Ah - an approach you have brought to this forum then..

You beat me to it, Rum.

[Atheist-Lite]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

[Feck]

Christianity has a fairly limited impact on my life.... I really can't see how I could actually hate it.

I feel the same way about white wine , but nobody spent all my school years telling me if I didn't love oaked Chardonnay I was going to hell .Nor do I find leaflets pushed through my door saying there is a free after school club at Oddbins...

[Hermit]

I'm with Rum.

Also, personal experience should not be dismissed wrt acknowledging how abusive religion is, in the same way that being raped counts for a personal understanding of why sexual assault is wrong that those who've not experienced rape cannot have. And personal experience does not mean that a more general informed opinion based on facts is not possible, it just adds an element of intimate understanding.

Wrong. This is just atheistic bigotry. Obviously, just as not all men are not rapists and cannot therefor rationally be viewed through the lens of the rape victim, not all Christians believe "that you are either for us or against us, you either believe us and are saved or don't and you are damned."

In fact, I would say that in my experience, those who hold this sort of militant radical belief in Christianity are in the exceedingly small minority, and that the vast majority of Christians are perfectly nice people who are happy to let everyone believe what they will.

Moreover, it's important, if one is a rational being and not a mere bigot spouting prejudice, to recognize that a Christian who wishes you to accept Christ as your personal savior is not performing some hostile act, he or she is trying to help you. However deluded their beliefs in the objective reality sense, if they bring the subject up, they are generally genuinely concerned not with an "us against them" attitude such as Rum suggests, but rather they are concerned with the individual's immortal soul, which they would like to see enjoy all the benefits and wonderful things that Jesus offers to those who believe in him, including eternal life.

It's not they who are condemning anyone to eternal torment, it's the individuals themselves who are doing that by rejecting the salvation that Christ died to attain for all mankind, if only they will receive it and believe.

Whether this is true or not, the motives of Christians are only rarely anything but good and altruistic. They want people to live good lives and accept Jesus and be saved from what awaits those who are either ignorant of Jesus' message or who are mired in sin and are being cozened by Satan and will therefor suffer great torments. This is not, as Rum suggests, "anti-human," it's precisely the opposite, although it may indeed be a delusion insofar as fact is concerned.

Religion exists because it is useful to individuals and societies. It has positive survival benefits for the human race, even though atheists don't like to admit it, which is why it's such an enduring institution.

So, it's simply either gross ignorance or deliberate bigotry to compare Christianity to Islam as Rum does, because it's simply not true. Sure there are some religious extremists in the Christian camp, but it's both unfair and irrational to tar every Christian with the same broad brush.

And if we're discussing comparative evil, the evil that's been done in the name of atheism and secularism has a far longer list of the dead.

In your rush to defend good christians you missed the fact that neither Charlou, nor Rum, whom she was agreeing with, was attacking them. They were commenting on what they thought about Christianity, and why they thought so. Your reaction - confusing criticism of a doctrine/institution with personal rudeness - is pretty typical (though not exclusive) of theists.

[charlou]

Various people, please note the title of the thread.

Rum hates christianity, not necessarily christians.

Rather important difference in semantics...

This ^


I would add that I feel the same way about Islam, but not necessarily people who call themselves Muslims ... and Judaism, but not necessarily people who call themselves Jews. In fact, I don't hate people ... it really is dogma and some of the behaviours that arise from it that I detest, particularly dogma that holds that human beings are sinful and that sex and sexuality are wrong.

Here it is again ...

In The Case Against God, George H. Smith said, "In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation."

[Hermit]

...the radical atheists, the ones who pronounce their hatred for religion, and are therefore practicing religion every bit as much as the theists they decry, generally have no consideration or respect for anyone else and will insult people of faith to their face, in the most egregiously infantile and hostile terms, without regard to anything other than their own hatred and antipathy.

That's a bit rich, coming from you. Shall we talk about communism and communists for a moment?

[Hermit]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

It's not an opinion I share. To do so, would involve regarding christians, nazis et cetera as having made a free and deliberate choice as an autonomous individual to adopt any of those views. That is not an assumption I subscribe to.

[JimC]

...the radical atheists, the ones who pronounce their hatred for religion, and are therefore practicing religion every bit as much as the theists they decry, generally have no consideration or respect for anyone else and will insult people of faith to their face, in the most egregiously infantile and hostile terms, without regard to anything other than their own hatred and antipathy.

That's a bit rich, coming from you. Shall we talk about communism and communists for a moment?

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

It's not an opinion I share. To do so, would involve regarding christians, nazis et cetera as having made a free and deliberate choice as an autonomous individual to adopt any of those views. That is not an assumption I subscribe to.

Actually, even if they have made such a conscious choice, I may still get on with them quite well, in areas of life removed from religious argument. Even relatively committed christians can be good company when they realise that you are beyond saving, at least the ones with a sense of humour...

[Rum]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

I can't agree with this, for the very simple and self evident reason that I know I don't actually hate Christians, with the exception of a few who have done or justified evil things deliberately in its name. I hate Christianity for the things it has done historically, both by perverting what people believe it is to be human and warping their minds and reason, frustrating the march of rationality and reason when they came close to challenging orthodoxy, the things it has done to human sexuality..I could go on.

There are very few people I actually hate in this world.

Incidentally I have a cousin who I 'almost' hate. He is a lay preacher and I try to avoid him at all costs. In fact I have not seen him in ten years. He is a total religious nut. He visited my parents a few days ago following my dad's operation. My dad has very bad arthritis in his hip which can make life pretty miserable for him and at 86 they won't operate. Anyway my cousin has mild arthritis in his arm from playing rugby when he was younger. My dad asked him how he treats it. His reply was 'I give a little prayer to god and it goes'.

The twat.

[Atheist-Lite]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

I can't agree with this, for the very simple and self evident reason that I know I don't actually hate Christians, with the exception of a few who have done or justified evil things deliberately in its name. I hate Christianity for the things it has done historically, both by perverting what people believe it is to be human and warping their minds and reason, frustrating the march of rationality and reason when they came close to challenging orthodoxy, the things it has done to human sexuality..I could go on.

There are very few people I actually hate in this world.

Incidentally I have a cousin who I 'almost' hate. He is a lay preacher and I try to avoid him at all costs. In fact I have not seen him in ten years. He is a total religious nut. He visited my parents a few days ago following my dad's operation. My dad has very bad arthritis in his hip which can make life pretty miserable for him and at 86 they won't operate. Anyway my cousin has mild arthritis in his arm from playing rugby when he was younger. My dad asked him how he treats it. His reply was 'I give a little prayer to god and it goes'.

The twat.

'I give a little prayer to god and it goes' that's a new way of putting it, he'll be needing glasses.

[Rum]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

I can't agree with this, for the very simple and self evident reason that I know I don't actually hate Christians, with the exception of a few who have done or justified evil things deliberately in its name. I hate Christianity for the things it has done historically, both by perverting what people believe it is to be human and warping their minds and reason, frustrating the march of rationality and reason when they came close to challenging orthodoxy, the things it has done to human sexuality..I could go on.

There are very few people I actually hate in this world.

Incidentally I have a cousin who I 'almost' hate. He is a lay preacher and I try to avoid him at all costs. In fact I have not seen him in ten years. He is a total religious nut. He visited my parents a few days ago following my dad's operation. My dad has very bad arthritis in his hip which can make life pretty miserable for him and at 86 they won't operate. Anyway my cousin has mild arthritis in his arm from playing rugby when he was younger. My dad asked him how he treats it. His reply was 'I give a little prayer to god and it goes'.

The twat.

'I give a little prayer to god and it goes' that's a new way of putting it, he'll be needing glasses.

If I had been there I would have asked why he has to repeat the prayer. Surely a big strong god like that could make it go away for keeps!

[charlou]

Christianity can only exist inside a Christian. It is a false dicotomy to say you can hate one without hating the other. If you hate nazism then you need to direct your hatred at the nazis along with their emblems and so with christianity.

I can't agree with this, for the very simple and self evident reason that I know I don't actually hate Christians, with the exception of a few who have done or justified evil things deliberately in its name. I hate Christianity for the things it has done historically, both by perverting what people believe it is to be human and warping their minds and reason, frustrating the march of rationality and reason when they came close to challenging orthodoxy, the things it has done to human sexuality..I could go on.

There are very few people I actually hate in this world.

Incidentally I have a cousin who I 'almost' hate. He is a lay preacher and I try to avoid him at all costs. In fact I have not seen him in ten years. He is a total religious nut. He visited my parents a few days ago following my dad's operation. My dad has very bad arthritis in his hip which can make life pretty miserable for him and at 86 they won't operate. Anyway my cousin has mild arthritis in his arm from playing rugby when he was younger. My dad asked him how he treats it. His reply was 'I give a little prayer to god and it goes'.

The twat.

'I give a little prayer to god and it goes' that's a new way of putting it, he'll be needing glasses.

If I had been there I would have asked why he has to repeat the prayer. Surely a big strong god like that could make it go away for keeps!

His big strong god likes to test faith to remind people what good christians they are. He's really considerate like that.

[Robert_S]

I had a great experience with religion in a fairly liberal Methodist church. The thing is, I took it more seriously and actually read some of those bible books and thought about theology. I was going to become a preacher, although I had some doubts about missionary work since my understanding was that you can't go to hell if you never heard of Jesus.

Then I found out that those Devil people were making almost all the good music, which solved that dilemma.

[charlou]

Then I found out that those Devil people were making almost all the good music, which solved that dilemma.

Hehe ...



My mother genuinely believed the initials AC/DC stood for antichrist/devilchrist