Eve and Adam question

[Pappa]

I was wondering earlier if there's any mention of what became of Adam and Eve after they died. Does their eternal fate get a mention?

[.Morticia.]

I was wondering earlier if there's any mention of what became of Adam and Eve after they died. Does their eternal fate get a mention?

no mention in the bible at all

Didn't dante mention they were in limbo?

where all the pre xian good people go

[cowiz]

I was wondering earlier if there's any mention of what became of Adam and Eve after they died. Does their eternal fate get a mention?

no mention in the bible at all

Didn't dante mention they were in limbo?

where all the pre xian good people go

That's one of the reasons Jebus popped his clogs - to redeem the sinners prior to his arrival. You know it makes sense.

[cowiz]

I was wondering earlier if there's any mention of what became of Adam and Eve after they died. Does their eternal fate get a mention?

no mention in the bible at all

Didn't dante mention they were in limbo?

where all the pre xian good people go

That's one of the reasons Jebus popped his clogs - to redeem the sinners prior to his arrival. You know it makes sense.

Also, the reason that there was a war in heaven, and Satan became the man he is today is all over this issue. Lucifer was of the opinion that Yahweh's plan for savior was all a load of old bollocks. And he told God so. God was pissed at being questioned by Lucifer, and an almighty fight broke out. Lucifer lost and was cast out of heaven along with 1/3 of all the angels.

To Lucifer sacrificing oneself to redeem oneself from oneself did not make a jot of sense, and he had a good point.

[Bella Fortuna]

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You said "Peter"... hehe hehe hehe...

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[rachelbean]

The scriptures are actually vague on it but traditional orthodox teaching is that when Christ descended into hell the three days after his burial, that he free'd the righteous. Sometimes referred to as the "harrowing of hell". You'll see iconography to the effect if you look for it. I can't even remember what the evangelical teachings on it were though

[Coito ergo sum]

Paul is the first Saint. There are none before him.

St. John the Baptist, St. Joachim and St. Anne predate Paul.

[Coito ergo sum]

There is a Catholic rite called the "Litany to Old Testament Saints" - http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/litany22.htm

[Animavore]

Paul is the first Saint. There are none before him.

St. John the Baptist, St. Joachim and St. Anne predate Paul.

So? They weren't made Saints before he was. They were back-dated. Although the martyrs were the first people to be canonised before Paul.

There is a Catholic rite called the "Litany to Old Testament Saints" - http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/litany22.htm

Not in order of when they were made Saints. It's just some hierarchy.

[Coito ergo sum]

The scriptures are actually vague on it but traditional orthodox teaching is that when Christ descended into hell the three days after his burial, that he free'd the righteous. Sometimes referred to as the "harrowing of hell". You'll see iconography to the effect if you look for it. I can't even remember what the evangelical teachings on it were though

That's true, and it is one of the areas where Christianity gets a bit difficult to understand, and not all denominations accept the descending into hell thing, as I don't believe it is explicitly stated in the Bible that this happened.

But, the hell he descended into isn't described as the place of fire and torment that we popularly think of as Hell today. It was more of the old-school Greek "hades" or "sheol" of the old testament, which was a world of the dead. Everyone who died went to sheol. It wasn't so much a place of affirmative punishment, but it was a separation from god, as I understand it.

The idea was that somehow the good folks from the old testament had to be saved and brought to heaven, since in the Christian philosophy no form of atonement or offerings like described in the old testament, sacrificing lambs and whatnot, none of that could actually clean you up enough to get to heaven. What did it was the ultimate sacrifice of the "Lamb of God" Jesus H. Christ. And, his sacrifice washed the world clean, so long as a person accepts the gift. So, how was Noah and Moses saved, since they never accepted Jesus's sacrifice while living? He went down to hades and "defeated death" and gave the dead the opportunity to accept his gift while in hades. Those that did, were saved and went to heaven. Those that didn't will be cast into the lake of fire on judgment day.

This always struck me as a rather unfair process, because, I mean, once you're dead you have the advantage of knowing there is an afterlife already. So, if Jesus shows up out of the blue and says to you in sheol, "dude, I'm here in sheol visiting but I'm out of here, going to heaven and I can take you with me if you accept my sacrfice on your behalf..." I mean - you're pretty well going to take it the opportunity, given that you are already pretty clear on the whole afterlife thing. Those of us living are still laboring under the disability of the lack of that knowledge.

[Coito ergo sum]

Paul is the first Saint. There are none before him.

St. John the Baptist, St. Joachim and St. Anne predate Paul.

So? They weren't made Saints before he was. They were back-dated. Although the martyrs were the first people to be canonised before Paul.

That may be - but they predated him, as did St. Mary Magdalene.

There is a Catholic rite called the "Litany to Old Testament Saints" - http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/litany22.htm

Not in order of when they were made Saints. It's just some hierarchy.

I understood the question to be whether there were any old testament saints, not whether they were canonized while they were alive or before or after someone else.

I'm not even sure if those on the Litany to Old Testament Saints were ever even formally canonized.

[Animavore]

That may be - but they predated him, as did St. Mary Magdalene.

Oh yeah. I forgot the context I had written that

I'm not even sure if those on the Litany to Old Testament Saints were ever even formally canonized.

No. Not many of them where. I've never heard anyone pray to "St. Moses".

[rachelbean]

This always struck me as a rather unfair process, because, I mean, once you're dead you have the advantage of knowing there is an afterlife already. So, if Jesus shows up out of the blue and says to you in sheol, "dude, I'm here in sheol visiting but I'm out of here, going to heaven and I can take you with me if you accept my sacrfice on your behalf..." I mean - you're pretty well going to take it the opportunity, given that you are already pretty clear on the whole afterlife thing. Those of us living are still laboring under the disability of the lack of that knowledge.

Yeah, I think that's at the root of universalism or the mystic belief (which many orthodox christians I met, held) of apocatastasis. The salvation of all, but through the act of Christ's death. We all were/will be saved and reconciled anyway so those that accept it while alive are just blessed to have known God on earth, etc. In that case obviously Christ's descent into hell benefited all before and after him.

[cowiz]

Fuck me backwards with a shitty pointed stick, an actual intellectual discussion on Ratz about religion. Who'd of thunk it?

[rachelbean]

Fuck me backwards with a shitty pointed stick, an actual intellectual discussion on Ratz about religion. Who'd of thunk it?

I love discussing both politics and religion. Most people prefer to argue them though...so in those cases I definitely prefer talking about beer and cheese and tits