Coming Out as a Christian in a Atheist Community

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Death-bed conversions are a sign of a somewhat understandable fear. Somewhat because nothing has changed in the world except one's own personal status in regard to death. I'm with Hitch, statements made while drugged or crazy should not carry much weight. (I've used that defense before and I know it works.)

[DRSB]

He probably got scared by some terminal diagnosis, this is when people are ready to clutch at every straw, be it god or some (other) charlatan.

[Santa_Claus]

the God thing does provide comfort - especially in times of stress (like dying!).

and until you've bought that ticket I think unfair to criticise how others handle it.

FWIW sometimes I look at the Moon and wonder if my late Missus made it there. and I hope she did............Of course she didn't and it's not even an accurate representation of her beleifs. but the thoughts make me smile. if I need to lie to myself to acheive that I will.

humans are funny buggers...........a bit of self deception can be very useful.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

the God thing does provide comfort - especially in times of stress (like dying!).

and until you've bought that ticket I think unfair to criticise how others handle it.

So? Who cares what you think?

[DRSB]

Isn't the god-thing a way of coming to terms with death?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Isn't the god-thing a way of coming to tems with death?

No, it's a way of avoiding coming to term with death.

[Santa_Claus]

the God thing does provide comfort - especially in times of stress (like dying!).

and until you've bought that ticket I think unfair to criticise how others handle it.

So? Who cares what you think?

here? I doubt anyone does. nor should they.

but I am not here to seek approval or to validate my beliefs.

make of my postings what you will. or not. all same to me.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'd like to know how you'd deal with the revelation that a major atheist icon was actually a convert to Christianity? Would you join the metaphoric lynch mob? or take the Bible from the shelf? or not give a damn?

I would be surprised, and inquire after his or her reasons.

I would not join in any lynch mob. I'd rather try to debate him or her.

I've already taken several Bibles from the shelf. I have 6 different Christian Bibles on my shelf, along with the Book of Mormon, Qu'ran, I'Ching, the Holy Vedas....among other things... I typically find myself more knowledgeable about religions than the adherents I run into. I've found most Christians don't take the Bible from the shelf, and when they do they read it in a manner that guarantees they can't understand it (reading passages in isolation, and ignoring context).

I would give a damn, depending on which "major atheist" it was. If it was one of the Four Horsemen, I would be shocked and amazed. However, I do not accept atheism based on authority, so the identity of the person would not be what persuades me - rather, it would be the soundness of the arguments made. If this "major atheist" said they had some form of personal revelation, well, I'd say to him what I say to all people who claim that - I can't prove that what you say happened to you personally didn't happen, but rationally there is no reason for me to believe one man's personal revelation and not every other personal revelation. What do I say to the Catholic or the Jew, or the Muslim or the Hindu, or the Buddhist or the Zoroastrian, or the Hari Krishna, or the Santarian? They all claim personal revelations? On what basis do I accept one man's revelation and reject the rest?

We're still left in the same boat - that major atheist who came out as a Christian would also need to explain why he did not accept the word of Islamic Imams and adherents who claim to have had wonderful revelations and personal interventions by Allah. for the same reason the "major atheist coming out as a Christian" rejects the Islamic view - I must reject the Christian view. Until I experience what he has experienced, well - I guess I'm out of luck.

[hackenslash]

It's already happened to me. One of my very good friends, and somebody with whom I stood shoulder-to-shoulder in the vanguard against unreason on the old VenomfangX forum, got emrboiled in studying philosophy at university, and eventually converted to a kind of non-denominational christian. Some of you will know him from Ratskep and RDF, so I won't mention his name.

We argued qute heatedly for a while, but we're still sort of tentative friends.

As for a 'major' atheist, I suspect that my reaction would be quite ambivalent. I know it was when Anthony Flew lost his marbles* and decided that he believed in some sort of deistic conception of god. In the end, it doesn't matter who converts or comes out, they still won't have any evidence.


*Have I just exposed a bias..?

[nellikin]

I have two aunts who have converted to Christianty. One was raised an atheist so was a full-on convert. The other was raised Xtian, shrugged belief off, then was re-converted by Billy Graham. Knowing them both, they are both a bit ill-adjusted and I believe that what they get from their convictions - apart from a sense of security in god - is a sense of community. They are both wackos, in a special way (and one I really like, but can't spend more than 3 hours with her 'coz she starts in on the god bits and all other types of woo), and have found friends who accept them into their church community. As long as they attend mass, the social events etc., they are accepted - something neither of them found in the wider, secular world...

[Trolldor]

Which is what I see a lot of - "Church" is a community where you would otherwise have none.

[DRSB]

How do you account for the fact that after 50 years of imposed atheism, people had themselves baptised the moment they deemed it safe? At age 30 and 40? Surely not because of the community, probably some sense of missing identiy, don't know, baffling however what a mass phenoomenon this is.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

How do you account for the fact that after 50 years of imposed atheism, people had themselves baptised the moment they deemed it safe? At age 30 and 40? Surely not because of the community, probably some sense of missing identiy, don't know, baffling however what a mass phenoomenon this is.

Propaganda.

[DRSB]

Propaganda by whom?!

May be you mean by missionizing evangelists, yes, this is absolutely deplorable. They chat people in the street up, sometimes singing rocky-poppy songs, people see an opportunity to practise their English, then people are asked "do you belive in God", people say "to be honest no", then evangelists say "but do you know that God is love", people say "now, this is interesting"...

[Trolldor]

What? No.

Missionaries tend to provide medicine, shelter, something.

Missionaries who bring nothing get spurned.