Militant Atheism - need to be more tactically inventive?

[DRSB]

There are even Christians that think RD furthers their cause, like see here the article: "Thank God for the new Atheists": http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/08/10/ ... -atheists/

There is this Evolutionary Evangelist, M. Dowd, see his site: Thank God for Evolution: http://www.thankgodforevolution.com/

On the whole, creationists are masters of dealing with absurdities, they can turn around plain impossible things and use it to support their claims!

On the other hand, sometimes atheism behaves as a religion too, some atheists think they need a church: http://nymag.com/news/features/46214/

[bhakta]

While accepting the damage done by more dogmatic Xtian educational establishments many students of Xtian instituitions in developing countries are not indoctrinated or "abused" sexually or psychologically and many have gone onto take up leading positions in their countries. I saw this from personal experience of working in a remote impoverished area of Asia which had a small Xtian school taking predominantly poor Hindu students. Proselytising was forbidden, but Christian staff were open about their faith. Recent students had gone onto the countries best further education institutions, one has become the countries leading neurosurgeon another the military commander for a communist insurgency which won de facto power, ultimately through the ballot box. Few have abandoned their own culture or become Xtian.

For many Xtian educationalists in developing countries working in education is not part some sinister plot to abuse , convert or indoctrinate. For most its a genuine attempt to give the poor and marginalised a voice. One of the best strategies to improve child survival is to provide women with a primary level education.

I guess an atheist teacher would feel free to discuss their non belief with say a Hindu student if asked ? Would a similar response from a Christian teacher be so wrong if questioned by a student?

As to the original thread being more tactical will probably just strengthen the religious militants as it will be seen as persecution and drive some moderates their way. I quite like the thought of a spot of bronze age education, a bit brutal in parts ,but underpins a more sustainable way of life and no more genocidal than the present age. ?

[Santa_Claus]

As to the original thread being more tactical will probably just strengthen the religious militants as it will be seen as persecution and drive some moderates their way. I quite like the thought of a spot of bronze age education, a bit brutal in parts ,but underpins a more sustainable way of life and no more genocidal than the present age. ?

Persecution? those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

I have no problem with you embracing the bronze age, nor even abusing your own children with a bronze age education - but I do have a problem with either imposing it on others - or simply expecting others to treat mumbo jumboism as normal behaviour. it's not.

You're an adult in 21st century FFS

[charlou]

I have no problem with you embracing the bronze age, nor even abusing your own children with a bronze age education - but I do have a problem with either imposing it on others - or simply expecting others to treat mumbo jumboism as normal behaviour. it's not.

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

[Trolldor]

I take serious issue with anyone inflicting their children with bronze age mythology under the presumption that it is fact.

[Santa_Claus]

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

A bit of bhakta and a bit of thread. and the world in general.

Is he touching your special Jesus parts?

[charlou]

With "you" are you addressing bhakta? If so, I think you're leaping to quite a few assumptions there.

A bit of bhakta and a bit of thread. and the world in general.

Is he touching your special Jesus parts?

If that were the case, it'd be a repressed christian sidehug with furtive grope and cognitive denial.

[Robert_S]

I don't know where the idea that atheists ought to adopt some overarching strategy or set of tactics comes from, thought I suspect it's habit. Liberation does not march in lock step.

That said, a diversity of tactics, strategies and whatever is probably the best way to promote godlessness. Let's suppose this one's an atheist and volunteers at some local charity, that one is a selfish greedy bastard with a big house too many cars, another is outspoken and just a little tiresome sometimes and yet another doesn't really bring it up very much, and so on.

That's a great way to be.


And bhakta, I once heard "the church" defined as all the people of good will. By that definition, quite a few atheists never left it.

[buschmaster]

...

[Feck]

TL:DR We have a thread or two on Nietzsche and a resident fanboi ..try the philosophy forum

[Hermit]

atheists have nothing to offer at this time aside from debunking religion, suggesting a rational, guilt-free life of finding their own way, discovering their own answers.

The Monty Python mob has done that joke years ago, and it has done it better.

but there are untold answers. we think we know everything, all has been said and done, there is no more to discover.

you all think that.

I didn't know that.

[devogue]

there are infinite things about the minds of men waiting to be discovered. infinite! untold worlds! yes, waiting to be discovered. they are there now.

Yes, but the football's starting soon.

[Mohamed]

it's a fight for the future of humanity!, not a game of cricket

I couldn't agree more. Glad that people like you exist. It is a fight for the future of humanity, just try to imagine how the West would look like today without the Enlightenment happening. But sadly, the rights and freedoms brought by Enlightenment are taken for granted by many today. IMO, there will always be a struggle against them, as long as militant religious fundies exist. I would say, let's not rest on the laurels. Doesn't the sleep of reason produce monsters?

Now as to tactics, I assume the goal is, like your sig says, to kill the gods - spread Atheism. IMO, "campaign slogans that would outright offend "Mohammed is a Kiddie Fiddler" or "Christianity = Nonsense on a stick", printed bin bags with eyes on them" are not going to work towards that goal. This sort of campaigns do have a good role ONLY in unmasking the criminal intentions of religious nuts who would attack the campaigners - actually who are now attacking, physically. Because no Muslim will become an apostate because you draw Mohamed with a bomb on his head. If anything, they will become radicalized. So these tactics are meant for a different audience, for the Westerners who have to open their eyes and remove the veil that the Islamic propaganda has put over their eyes.

When the audience is religious masses, you have to use different means. As a former fundamentalist - I was JW - I can tell you how to do it. First, you have to realize what exactly is the fundament of these Abrahamic religions. What is it, that if you take out, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down? Their holy book(s). Attack that, show their errors, their contradictions, their exclusive human authorship, and the seed of doubt will be planted. It doesn't have to turn them outright into Atheists, but a small seed of doubt can stop the greatest desire to become a suicide bomber.

Textual criticism has helped a lot, at least in my case Unfortunately, there are very few scholars working on the Koran in this direction. The situation is quite opposite to the one in Christianity, where there are plenty of scholars applying critical methods to their holy text. We need more Atheists specializing in this towards the Koran. We need Bart Ehrmans in Islamic studies. I know, the reason for their current non-existence is fear. Murderous Islam is going to terminate any scholar who'll become fairly known for critical Islamic studies. But there has to be a way.

Another tactic that has to be employed with the Muslim apologists is to reveal the obvious: that their religion is a just a branch of Judaism. Keep on hammering about Judaism as being the source of Islam, the source of its ideas and practices. Given that the Islamic fundies are usually anti-semites, this could have some interesting effects.

And yet another one would be to ask for hard evidence for the existence of this Allah, as he is described in the Koran. Insist on not accepting empty words as evidence (like "the Koran says this and that", etc), or arguments that are simply verbal claims. Drive home the point that all they believe is hearsay. That they believe because other people have told them so, starting with Mohamed. Ask common sense questions, like why, if Allah wants all people to come to Islam and Islamic justice to be in effect over the whole world, if he wants all people to convert, why doesn't he descend on earth and command so, performing miracles for the unbelievers? It is easier to ask Muslims these kind of question because unlike Christianity, their belief system is not too sophisticated. Allah can be seen, and will make himself known to man, in person.