Are you too angry about religion?

[Hermit]

Even when I discuss basic theological points like "why does god allow suffering?" mild-mannered folk assume I'm attacking religion or christians.

What can we deduce about their susceptibility to reasoned arguments from a reaction like that, mhh? If I was rational myself, I'd conclude that any such attempt is a waste of breath, but my irrepressible optimism keeps getting in the way. Besides, just why should we shut up when confronted with pernicious crap? I certainly won't, not even when it would be the polite thing to do, like at the baptism of one of my nieces. I found myself sitting across the table from the priest, ridiculing the ritual he had performed an hour earlier, and making generally cheeky remarks about religion. I did tone the language down a bit. For instance, instead of telling him that he is just another huckster, I suggested that he missed his true vocation; that he ought to be in marketing. The atmosphere remained convivial and civil.

That is not to say that on other occasions I have not personally upset mild mannered theists new-agers simply by casting aspersions on the concept of super-naturalism. When that happens, my bluntness tends to escalate, and I make no apologies for going on to telling them what I really think of religion. Too angry? That's what they may think. I don't.

[Loki_999]

I will say that every time I see a priest I think "fucking pedophile." I don't trust priests. I can deal with a minister or rabbi, but priests bother me. I would never trust a child with a priest, or one of those "brothers" from Christian Brothers thingamabob. No ski trips or camping excursions with the good "father" or "brother" permitted....no way.

I forget who it was (possibly welles or wilde) but there is an anecdote regarding him and a friend going past a priest talking to a young boy, and he said "That is the scariest thing i've ever seen" "Run for your life boy! Run!"

[Trolldor]

Alfred Hitchcock I thought...

[Loki_999]

Alfred Hitchcock I thought...

That sounds right.

[Samuel]

I get really annoyed by things like "it's not a matter of logic and reason" or "well, I know in my heart that God exists/is good/whatever". As if the existence of God is a matter of taste, or impossible to measure. Ok, if there are no actions of this God that we can measure, ever, then this said God has no impact whatsoever on the known universe. Then we get to things like prayer. It's shown not to work. "But my uncle got cured from cancer just by praying, doctors said it was impossible." Excuse me, but instead of continuing those discussions I'd rather go thrusting rusty nails through my eardrums.

I'm a closet atheist, sad to say. Our kids (kindergarten-aged) attend some church clubs to socialize with their friends, but seem to catch on pretty quickly. After the first few times they even prayed before throwing the dice while playing board games, but after a while concluded that it doesn't work. We are trying not to tell them one way or the other, but the oldest has already figured it out that "dad doesn't believe in God, really". He even once said, on a christmas evening, while brushing teeth: "But Jesus was just a carpenter!" Priceless

I try to understand that people are vulnerable to these irrational faith based opinions, but still I have this constant urge to yell to them things like "you fucking ignorant mindless idiots, wake up" or something much more eloquent if I had a larger vocabulary.

[Pappa]

To an extent. If I voice my increasingly vehement opposition to religion, I'll be looked on as a whining, strident atheist. The thing is, though, the longer I live the more intolerant of religion I am becoming. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I think it is an enormous bane and an unmatched negative influence on mankind - and how can you not sound strident when you express that?

I think this is my problem too. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I am completely exasperated by religious stupidity and more so as I get older... and mostly of the meek, moderate kind (or people who aren't religious but just accept religious privilege). I am exasperated that they seem never, ever to have actually thought about religion from the outside, even slightly. Fundies don't bother me at all. Perhaps because I don't have any fundie friends, but any fundies I see or meet, I simply roll my eyes and ignore them, they are completely lost.

Recently I posted a load of anti-pope facebook statuses. You'd think that my friends and family would approve of me rallying against a man who has actively harboured paedophile rapists, but when the Pope came up in conversation in work (and not in a context about the "abuse" or anything), I could see that the woman I was talking to suddenly got this look of fright on her face like I was going to start ranting about religion or something.

I know that my stock responses about religion are essentially dismissive, but that dismissiveness seems to come across as anger to the few religious people I know and all the other people who aren't "actively atheist". I'm really unsure what to do about it all as it is causing me some problems at home.

[Pappa]

Even when I discuss basic theological points like "why does god allow suffering?" mild-mannered folk assume I'm attacking religion or christians.

What can we deduce about their susceptibility to reasoned arguments from a reaction like that, mhh? If I was rational myself, I'd conclude that any such attempt is a waste of breath, but my irrepressible optimism keeps getting in the way. Besides, just why should we shut up when confronted with pernicious crap? I certainly won't, not even when it would be the polite thing to do, like at the baptism of one of my nieces. I found myself sitting across the table from the priest, ridiculing the ritual he had performed an hour earlier, and making generally cheeky remarks about religion. I did tone the language down a bit. For instance, instead of telling him that he is just another huckster, I suggested that he missed his true vocation; that he ought to be in marketing. The atmosphere remained convivial and civil.

That is not to say that on other occasions I have not personally upset mild mannered theists new-agers simply by casting aspersions on the concept of super-naturalism. When that happens, my bluntness tends to escalate, and I make no apologies for going on to telling them what I really think of religion. Too angry? That's what they may think. I don't.

Actually, I do that too, at times. Though I always keep my mouth shut at weddings and stuff.

[charlou]

I'm a closet atheist, sad to say.

Sorry to hear it. Curious ... why in the closet?

[Feck]

To an extent. If I voice my increasingly vehement opposition to religion, I'll be looked on as a whining, strident atheist. The thing is, though, the longer I live the more intolerant of religion I am becoming. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I think it is an enormous bane and an unmatched negative influence on mankind - and how can you not sound strident when you express that?

I think this is my problem too. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I am completely exasperated by religious stupidity and more so as I get older... and mostly of the meek, moderate kind (or people who aren't religious but just accept religious privilege). I am exasperated that they seem never, ever to have actually thought about religion from the outside, even slightly. Fundies don't bother me at all. Perhaps because I don't have any fundie friends, but any fundies I see or meet, I simply roll my eyes and ignore them, they are completely lost.

Recently I posted a load of anti-pope facebook statuses. You'd think that my friends and family would approve of me rallying against a man who has actively harboured paedophile rapists, but when the Pope came up in conversation in work (and not in a context about the "abuse" or anything), I could see that the woman I was talking to suddenly got this look of fright on her face like I was going to start ranting about religion or something.

I know that my stock responses about religion are essentially dismissive, but that dismissiveness seems to come across as anger to the few religious people I know and all the other people who aren't "actively atheist". I'm really unsure what to do about it all as it is causing me some problems at home.

Just remember to ask yourself ....Do I sound like I'm preaching ? The religulous won't get your Children you can relax about it

[Ele]

I know that my stock responses about religion are essentially dismissive, but that dismissiveness seems to come across as anger to the few religious people I know and all the other people who aren't "actively atheist". I'm really unsure what to do about it all as it is causing me some problems at home.

If it is causing you problems at home that's no good. Perhaps you could speak with an anger management therapist. Not necessarily for you to be "cured" of anger, but to get some insight into why other people may regard your dismissiveness as anger directed towards them perhaps.

Or perhaps you're just turning into an irascible and grumpy old git who needs a holiday in the sunshine. Come out to Australia for a few weeks, get some beer into yourself, perve at the beautiful people on the beaches and stop worrying about the religious windbags.

[Samuel]

I'm a closet atheist, sad to say.

Sorry to hear it. Curious ... why in the closet?

Thanks for the empathy, but I must clarify that it's not a completely closed closet, as my wife is also an atheist :-) Mainly to avoid Pappa's dilemma: "The problem is, I find that my moderate religious inlaws and my old college friends and similar (who probably aren't even religious) all now regard me as the angry ranting atheist with a chip on his shoulder. "

Most of my close relatives are Christian, and as much as I'd like to discuss theological issues with them in a rational manner, I feel that it will be impossible. Therefore I have chosen the cowardly option to mainly just avoid certain topics on Christmas dinners et cetera. But I feel infinitely lucky that my wife is also an atheist, my best friend, my lover, mother of our children and so on. My family (meaning me, wife + the kids) is a self-contained fully functional unit in a dysfunctional world Plus we have some close friends, unrelated, that share our doubts about the divine.

[Feck]

I'm a closet atheist, sad to say.

Sorry to hear it. Curious ... why in the closet?

Thanks for the empathy, but I must clarify that it's not a completely closed closet, as my wife is also an atheist :-) Mainly to avoid Pappa's dilemma: "The problem is, I find that my moderate religious inlaws and my old college friends and similar (who probably aren't even religious) all now regard me as the angry ranting atheist with a chip on his shoulder. "

Most of my close relatives are Christian, and as much as I'd like to discuss theological issues with them in a rational manner, I feel that it will be impossible. Therefore I have chosen the cowardly option to mainly just avoid certain topics on Christmas dinners et cetera. But I feel infinitely lucky that my wife is also an atheist, my best friend, my lover, mother of our children and so on. My family (meaning me, wife + the kids) is a self-contained fully functional unit in a dysfunctional world Plus we have some close friends, unrelated, that share our doubts about the divine.

And now you know us lot of god forsaken Ratz

[Coito ergo sum]

<snip>

Do the rest of you have this problem?

To an extent. If I voice my increasingly vehement opposition to religion, I'll be looked on as a whining, strident atheist. The thing is, though, the longer I live the more intolerant of religion I am becoming. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I think it is an enormous bane and an unmatched negative influence on mankind - and how can you not sound strident when you express that?

Even my equally (and lifelong) atheist ex-husband thought I was overboard with my opinions, but then, he's an accomodationist and a twat.

There are ways to respond to a theist without being strident.

One of the best short responses when you get into a situation where people are asking you why you are an atheist, you can just say, "because, while I may be missing something, I have never been able to distinguish religious belief from make believe. Could you explain how you make that distinction?" Most people are stumped, and the best responses amount to "I feel it," "I've had personal experiences that I can't prove to you," or "I just know it," but more commonly, the response is something to the effect of "oh, come on...it's not the same as make-believe!" (to which you can respond - well, I'm not saying it's the same - I'm saying I have not been able to make the distinction - can you help explain it to me? - they won't be able to).

[Pappa]

<snip>

Do the rest of you have this problem?

To an extent. If I voice my increasingly vehement opposition to religion, I'll be looked on as a whining, strident atheist. The thing is, though, the longer I live the more intolerant of religion I am becoming. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I think it is an enormous bane and an unmatched negative influence on mankind - and how can you not sound strident when you express that?

Even my equally (and lifelong) atheist ex-husband thought I was overboard with my opinions, but then, he's an accomodationist and a twat.

There are ways to respond to a theist without being strident.

One of the best short responses when you get into a situation where people are asking you why you are an atheist, you can just say, "because, while I may be missing something, I have never been able to distinguish religious belief from make believe. Could you explain how you make that distinction?" Most people are stumped, and the best responses amount to "I feel it," "I've had personal experiences that I can't prove to you," or "I just know it," but more commonly, the response is something to the effect of "oh, come on...it's not the same as make-believe!" (to which you can respond - well, I'm not saying it's the same - I'm saying I have not been able to make the distinction - can you help explain it to me? - they won't be able to).

In my experience, saying something like that would be regarded as very dismissive and sarcastic. Or it would if I said it. Maybe it's my delivery.

[Coito ergo sum]

The Catholic Church is repulsive. I wouldn't say I'm "angry" about it. But, I do hold priests in utter contempt. I am almost - very close - almost - to making that a public point of view in my daily life - like, if I encountered a priest, I am very close to simply, calmly suggesting that I do not associate with such personages. Their profession is based on lies, and statements of fact of which they have no knowledge but of which they claim to have factual and moral certainty. Factor that in with a butt-load ....err...boat load of hypocrisy and they can, pun intended, suck it.