What is faith? Really?

[Seth]

Christ, go back to primary school and learn how to read English.

You first. You wrote it, you have to live with it.

[Seth]

Being illiterate is fun for you, apparently. That is an atheist and a rationalist. Nothing whatsoever religious about it.

Of course there is. You just can't stand the idea that you are as religiously irrational as anyone.

[quote
Logic fail. Yet again. Don't you get tired of bringing forth idiocies? Why must a prior creator to the universe be discoverable from within the universe? You could have perfect knowledge of our simulation's rules, but not be aware that it is a simulation.

Because the universe is the universe, regardless of how many compartmented discrete sub-universes there may be. "Universe" means everything, everywhere, every time.

And if one's knowledge of everything, everywhere, everywhen is perfect, one will know whether god exists or not. In fact, at that point one may BE God.

[Seth]

The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist

I've certainly never chosen to believe that god doesn't exist.

Yes you have.

It's never even occurred to me that there might be a god,

Yes it has.

it is like saying why have you chosen not to think you are the reincarnation of Napoleon or Julius Caesar.

I suppose a Roman emperor could have been reincarnated as myself but there doesn't seem any reason to think so

Ipse dixit, quod erat demonstrandum.

You have been exposed to the concept of god. You have examined the claims associated with the proposition "god exists." You have judged the evidence insufficient and have therefore actively rejected the proposition "god exists" as being true. Therefore it has occurred to you that there might be a god and you have chosen to believe that god does not exist.

[Seth]

It's only in the face of religious bollocks in society (and on an inter-personal level) that we need to actually bother taking a position on it. If we didn't constantly have people and society stuffing religious crap down our throats, we wouldn't need to waste time on explaining that there is no evidence for God and therefore we don't believe in it.

Pity the world doesn't work the way you want it to, isn't it?

You take a position and you follow your convictions on the matter with fervor and conviction. It's a matter of faith to you that god doesn't exist. It's a matter of importance that you deny that god exists because you believe people are trying to stuff religious crap down your throat. You espouse and defend your system of beliefs as a matter of conscience.

You are a religious Atheist by definition.

[pErvinalia]

Christ, go back to primary school and learn how to read English.

You first. You wrote it, you have to live with it.

I said I "choose to believe that there is no god". NOT that there is no God. One is a pragmatic position, the other is an assertion. Surely you aren't that stupid that you can't see the difference??

[pErvinalia]

Being illiterate is fun for you, apparently. That is an atheist and a rationalist. Nothing whatsoever religious about it.

Of course there is. You just can't stand the idea that you are as religiously irrational as anyone.

Words have meaning, Seth. You don't get to make up your own meanings. There's nothing at all religious about not believing in God, just the same as there is nothing at all religious about not believing in unicorns. Stop being an idiot.

Logic fail. Yet again. Don't you get tired of bringing forth idiocies? Why must a prior creator to the universe be discoverable from within the universe? You could have perfect knowledge of our simulation's rules, but not be aware that it is a simulation.

Because the universe is the universe, regardless of how many compartmented discrete sub-universes there may be. "Universe" means everything, everywhere, every time.

And if one's knowledge of everything, everywhere, everywhen is perfect, one will know whether god exists or not. In fact, at that point one may BE God.

The problem with this is (well, there's a couple of problems)... One, the universe i.e. our local cosmic expansion isn't necessarily 'everything'. And two, regardless of that, how would we ever know if we had reached complete knowledge of everything? There's simply no way to tell. Put it this way, say we decided at some point that we knew everything there was to know about the physical nature of the universe. But there was still something unexplained (we might call them miracles). Does that mean God (or an external agent) exists, or does it mean that we haven't quite yet worked out everything? You'd have no way of knowing.

[MrJonno]

Words have meaning

No guns have meaning, words are just want liberal marxist use to trick people

[pErvinalia]

It's only in the face of religious bollocks in society (and on an inter-personal level) that we need to actually bother taking a position on it. If we didn't constantly have people and society stuffing religious crap down our throats, we wouldn't need to waste time on explaining that there is no evidence for God and therefore we don't believe in it.

Pity the world doesn't work the way you want it to, isn't it?

You take a position and you follow your convictions on the matter with fervor and conviction. It's a matter of faith to you that god doesn't exist. It's a matter of importance that you deny that god exists because you believe people are trying to stuff religious crap down your throat. You espouse and defend your system of beliefs as a matter of conscience.

You are a religious Atheist by definition.

And you are an idiot by definition. Go and troll someone else.

[MrJonno]

You can't call Seth an idiot for using his own version of logic and reason , just because he thinking does not resemble that of the rest of homo sapiens as scientist it could just mean he is a new species who has adapted to the new environment of 'Libbyworld'

When does my warning expire?

[JimC]

You can't call Seth an idiot for using his own version of logic and reason , just because he thinking does not resemble that of the rest of homo sapiens as scientist it could just mean he is a new species who has adapted to the new environment of 'Libbyworld'

When does my warning expire?

Every time you ask that question pushes the expiry date further along...

We call it the Kafka rule...

[pErvinalia]

[Seth]

Being illiterate is fun for you, apparently. That is an atheist and a rationalist. Nothing whatsoever religious about it.

Of course there is. You just can't stand the idea that you are as religiously irrational as anyone.

Words have meaning, Seth. You don't get to make up your own meanings.

I don't. I use the definitions found in the dictionary which exist there because those whose job it is to collate dictionary terms have carefully researched the contemporary usages of words and have categorized and organized them appropriately. You don't get to discard valid definitions just because you don't like them.

There's nothing at all religious about not believing in God, just the same as there is nothing at all religious about not believing in unicorns. Stop being an idiot.

That depends entirely on how you go about not believing in God. In your case, you go about it with religious fervor and commitment that exceeds the piety of most Christians.

Logic fail. Yet again. Don't you get tired of bringing forth idiocies? Why must a prior creator to the universe be discoverable from within the universe? You could have perfect knowledge of our simulation's rules, but not be aware that it is a simulation.

Because the universe is the universe, regardless of how many compartmented discrete sub-universes there may be. "Universe" means everything, everywhere, every time.

And if one's knowledge of everything, everywhere, everywhen is perfect, one will know whether god exists or not. In fact, at that point one may BE God.

The problem with this is (well, there's a couple of problems)... One, the universe i.e. our local cosmic expansion isn't necessarily 'everything'. And two, regardless of that, how would we ever know if we had reached complete knowledge of everything? There's simply no way to tell. Put it this way, say we decided at some point that we knew everything there was to know about the physical nature of the universe. But there was still something unexplained (we might call them miracles). Does that mean God (or an external agent) exists, or does it mean that we haven't quite yet worked out everything? You'd have no way of knowing.[/quote]

What part of "everything" is unclear to you?

[pErvinalia]

What part of 'logic' is unclear to you? Oh, that's right, all of it.

[Seth]

What part of 'logic' is unclear to you? Oh, that's right, all of it.

Please explain how defining everything as consisting of everything is illogical.

[pErvinalia]

When you answer my rebuttal of your point. How will we ever know if we know "everything'??