Religion, charity and stupidity

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The difference between religious givers and non-religious givers is that the non's aren't compelled by guilt. Being threatened, overtly or covertly, with going to hell if you don't pony up some gelt doesn't work on me.

Not true at all. Lots of advertisements on TV for secular charities do use the guilt trip technique whether its showing a starving or sad and abused looking child or a sad eyed puppy with a sickeningly compassionate and pleading voice over saying Jamie's father comes home drunk every night and fights with Jamie's mother. Jamie is too young to understand what's happening...etc (notice the constant use of child's name).
To be honest, I flick the station over when these ads come on. I don't need to be seeing gross river blindness eyes or cancer children when I'm trying to relax and watch the small bit of TV that I do.

Okay, I did badly there.

We're all here for you, Zilla.

Not enough coffee yet. I have three tankers tied up in traffic at New Orleans. They'll take a while to get up the Big Muddy and into the Meramec.

[maiforpeace]

I think its absurd also that they claim religious people give more than non-religious.

I may not be at mass giving money to the church (as said, not charity) or to the numerous charities that hang outside (usually religious institutes that I would give money to anyway given their ulterior motive) but I'm giving money to the various people that come into the pubs looking for donations or on the streets of Dublin or even dropping change into the poor boxes in the shops and I'm (pretty) sure many other people do too.

Kudos to you Animavore. Just giving away money when a stranger asks for it on the street, with nobody seeing or knowing of it is true generosity.

I would agree that religious people probably "give away" a larger percentage of their income than the non-religious do, because their churches are reminding them to tithe X percent of their income. But, as Ayaan points out, all of the money goes to the church. The money that actually goes to charities or to serve the poor, and/or the community are often solicited separately. The churches that use collection money to do good work in the community like fund soup kitchens or shelters are probably more of an exception than the rule. I think it's fair to say that many churches use that part of the collection money that is dedicated to doing good work to to fund missions to convert people, under the guise of helping others.

While I have no statistics to prove non-religious people give as much as the religious, here's one that proves the non-religious HELP more than the religious, which in my opinion is a far superior way to lift people from poverty than to just giving stuff away.

http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=94

We just hit the million mark for loans, and Kiva Christians are far behind us! I invite all of you to join us!

[Rum]

The BBC isn't commercial by the way. The adverts, or appeals as they call them, for charities are free (info for our Mericans). We pay an annual license fee to fund the BBC.

My point is simply that there is an assumption in the programming that religious people are more charitable than non-religious people. As pointed out earlier there is some evidence that this is so, but solely because giving to churches counts as charity. Personally I donate to charity - because I am a humanist and want to. The placing of the appeal in this case would make no difference to me (not that I intend to donate to that particular one).

I know the BBC is non-commercial, but they still have people who decide where the appeals are to be placed. Question: Have you never heard such appeals placed after secular topics?

I have been trying to think. I have heard them occasionally after the Radio 4 news, but not often. I have always heard them after the Sunday programme, so I think they are placed deliberately.

[Thinking Aloud]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

[Rum]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

Well all they have! All funded from people who go to church - with a few exceptions (including property now) they have no other source of income. Part of the scam!

[Thinking Aloud]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

Well all they have! All funded from people who go to church - with a few exceptions (including property now) they have no other source of income. Part of the scam!

I know.

[Ayaan]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

[maiforpeace]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

I'm sorry, that must be a difficult regret to deal with. We all have our regrets, so you aren't alone at least.

Despite the fact that my brother and his wife are deeply in debt, my sister in law continues to give huge amounts of money to her church. I just don't comprehend it. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere about "those that help themselves"? (I know nothing about the Bible so I am deferring to you ex-thumpers out there )

[Animavore]

I never gave to the church so my conscience is clear

In fact, I benefitted twice from the church, on my Communion and my Confirmation, and received a lot of dosh for making vows to the Holy See.

So long suckers

[Ayaan]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

I'm sorry, that must be a difficult regret to deal with. We all have our regrets, so you aren't alone at least.

Despite the fact that my brother and his wife are deeply in debt, my sister in law continues to give huge amounts of money to her church. I just don't comprehend it. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere about "those that help themselves"? (I know nothing about the Bible so I am deferring to you ex-thumpers out there )

Thanks.

No, that's not actually in the bible, but I don't recall how it came to be associated with the bible. There is this verse: Luke 6:38 - "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." Which is often used to convince people to keep giving even when they are suffering financial problems.

[maiforpeace]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

I'm sorry, that must be a difficult regret to deal with. We all have our regrets, so you aren't alone at least.

Despite the fact that my brother and his wife are deeply in debt, my sister in law continues to give huge amounts of money to her church. I just don't comprehend it. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere about "those that help themselves"? (I know nothing about the Bible so I am deferring to you ex-thumpers out there )

Thanks.

No, that's not actually in the bible, but I don't recall how it came to be associated with the bible. There is this verse: Luke 6:38 - "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." Which is often used to convince people to keep giving even when they are suffering financial problems.

That kind of shit really pisses me off. I remember when my sister in law was having family problems, and her church did very little to help her, despite all the money she has given them.

[Ayaan]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

I'm sorry, that must be a difficult regret to deal with. We all have our regrets, so you aren't alone at least.

Despite the fact that my brother and his wife are deeply in debt, my sister in law continues to give huge amounts of money to her church. I just don't comprehend it. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere about "those that help themselves"? (I know nothing about the Bible so I am deferring to you ex-thumpers out there )

Thanks.

No, that's not actually in the bible, but I don't recall how it came to be associated with the bible. There is this verse: Luke 6:38 - "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." Which is often used to convince people to keep giving even when they are suffering financial problems.

That kind of shit really pisses me off. I remember when my sister in law was having family problems, and her church did very little to help her, despite all the money she has given them.

That is terrible. There are churches that a actually communities, but they are much more rare than believers would like you to think. That verse was just the first one I thought of that talks about giving in the New Testament, there are others in a similar vein.

[floppit]

I wonder how long the slot has been there? The reason I think that might have something to do with it is that there's a whole Sunday service on radio 4 on Sunday mornings, maybe passing a charity plate was originally just as seen as part of that and got stuck there. I mean I love radio 4 in lots of ways but ye gods I don't need the shipping forecast each night - I should think it's all online these days anyway. Oh, and then there's the national anthem.... (for the Americans - mostly we don't do the anthem over here).

Let's face it, radio 4 is a bit 'quaint' at times!

[charlou]

I cringe at the thought of how much we might have given the church over the years...

The thought of how much I have given to churches over the years makes me physically ill.

But, just think of how much you're not giving them now - money better spent elsewhere.

[FBM]

I'm about as a-religious or un-religious as a human being can be, I think, but I give when I'm pretty sure it will alleviate a little suffering. A shitload of people have it a lot worse than I do. I don't owe it to them, but that doesn't mean that I have to be a callous, unsympathetic arse, either. There but for the grace of gwod go I...or something like that.